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Post by wanderingtrekker on May 5, 2006 0:56:14 GMT -5
ray comfort is a hoot when you need some comic relief. PM will be fine, although a "Book Club" thread might also be nice.
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Post by HSTN2983 on May 5, 2006 6:47:41 GMT -5
the role of women in judeo-christian cultures have been defined because of an originally patriarchal society. there have been societies throughout history in which women were in most leadership positions, matriarchal, and were incredibly successful. civilizations fall, but the matriarchal societies i remember studying have lasted ten times as long as american culture, and western civilization is still in its infant stages. the world will probably fall apart because men control it. we have no idea how to nurture. women are naturally more intelligent, no brownie points intended for you ladies out there. haha. i would much rather be led 'neath a woman than a male at times. i see the actions of a country, and you can tell immediately, by standing as an outsider looking in, that which societies are controlled by men. one example of this: imperialism.
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Post by Morluna on May 13, 2006 11:59:40 GMT -5
"we have no idea how to nurture. women are naturally more intelligent, no brownie points intended for you ladies out there."
Oh oh oh let me stop you there! That's not fair, now... I don't think you can say any gender is smarter than another... or that one has more innate nurturing skills. Perhaps mothering women are more instinctually intuned to nurture, but that doesn't mean they're necessarily better at it than men. Just the same, I think it's unfair to say that men are good at math and science and women are good at English and art. I believe that all of those stereotypes are just created by the encouragements of society. Women and men are expected to go into certain fields and be interested in certain subjects... I don't think it has anything to do with natural inclination.
PS: A book club thread sounds fun.
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pacp
Full Member
Put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
Posts: 146
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Post by pacp on May 18, 2006 20:20:37 GMT -5
I was wondering what the esteemed board members (of all creeds) think about this. To open up the discussion, I'm going to ask some questions from my Psychology of Gender class and see where that takes us. Please answer as many or as few as you would like. Keep in mind that all of these questions are for ALL members, gender notwithstanding. Everyone is welcome! How has your life been impacted by the gender that you are?Have you felt certain advantages, disadvantages, privileges, discrimination or limitations?Do you think gender is mainly due to biology or culture?Do other demographic variables interact with your gender to significantly affect your life? (example: sexual orientation, socioeconomic status, etc)Do you think gender relations are getting better or worse? How so? How do you perceive the term "feminist" and do you consider yourself a feminist? Why or why not? And this one is my own, to tie it in with this board a bit better: How do you feel that the concept of feminism fits in with your religious beliefs (or lack thereof)?Looking forward to your responses! Remember, all members may answer--this is NOT just for the ladies! Ok, you asked me to come to the feminist board. So here I am...What do I think. Well it may surprise you but you know I actually know a leading feminist. She was the former director of NOW (I'll keep her name to myself) and I also met Patrica Ireland once. I find them to be cold, troubled, bitter angry women who support abortion and all sorts of other sins that hurt women. They have no peace, no love and no male companionship. I heard Ireland speak and...believe me she has no tolerance.. she is bitter and resentful and blames Christian society for all the ills that have occurred against women. They both are unbelievers....there are no Christian feminists...irs an oxymoron.
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Post by valentine on May 18, 2006 21:28:57 GMT -5
Ok, you asked me to come to the feminist board. So here I am... How nice of you. By the way, your response to my response in the Beatles thread made zero sense, like most of your posts, so I am going to decline to answer that. If you'd like to make it more clear, that's certainly an option. Wait, woah, time out. Are you speaking about these two women specifically or all feminists in the world? If the former, and you know them personally, okay, I respect that you have more authority to make statements about how they are as people than I do. If the latter...you just called me a "cold, troubled, bitter angry {woman}" who "{has} no peace, no love and no male companionship." I am most sorry to inform you that I am none of these things. I am, however, a feminist. Please read my post near the beginning of this thread that invites you to look up the definition of feminism (I believe a dictionary would do you some good, anyway). Do that, come back and tell me you are not a feminist. Ahh, so do you admit that these "ills" occurred, regardless of who gets "blamed"? Interesting. And yet you believe that nothing should be done about this, it seems. No Christian feminists? Half of my friends would like a word with you. By the way, a MALE FEMINIST is not an oxymoron, either. Just in case you were wondering--that question about whether or not you considered yourself a feminist was just as much for the male board members as it was for the females. Again, please look up the definition of "feminism" in your favorite dictionary. You might be surprised to discover that there's nothing in there about being a "cold, troubled, bitter angry woman." Speaking of my questions, why did you bother to quote them if you weren't planning on answering them?
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pacp
Full Member
Put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
Posts: 146
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Post by pacp on May 18, 2006 21:46:57 GMT -5
Ok, you asked me to come to the feminist board. So here I am... How nice of you. By the way, your response to my response in the Beatles thread made zero sense, like most of your posts, so I am going to decline to answer that. If you'd like to make it more clear, that's certainly an option. Wait, woah, time out. Are you speaking about these two women specifically or all feminists in the world? If the former, and you know them personally, okay, I respect that you have more authority to make statements about how they are as people than I do. If the latter...you just called me a "cold, troubled, bitter angry {woman}" who "{has} no peace, no love and no male companionship." I am most sorry to inform you that I am none of these things. I am, however, a feminist. Please read my post near the beginning of this thread that invites you to look up the definition of feminism (I believe a dictionary would do you some good, anyway). Do that, come back and tell me you are not a feminist. Ahh, so do you admit that these "ills" occurred, regardless of who gets "blamed"? Interesting. And yet you believe that nothing should be done about this, it seems. No Christian feminists? Half of my friends would like a word with you. By the way, a MALE FEMINIST is not an oxymoron, either. Just in case you were wondering--that question about whether or not you considered yourself a feminist was just as much for the male board members as it was for the females. Again, please look up the definition of "feminism" in your favorite dictionary. You might be surprised to discover that there's nothing in there about being a "cold, troubled, bitter angry woman." Speaking of my questions, why did you bother to quote them if you weren't planning on answering them? I never said I wouldn't answer you. Look I actually like you....I mean..I don't like "who you are"..but I sins early care about your sole. And I know many people like you. This is..well interesting to me. You have a need you just don't know it yet. But your going to hate what I have to say. So you may hate what I think and who I am..but remember you don't really know me. There is a lot more going on here..its not as simple as your making it. The reason my other post makes no sense to you is because ....of the way you think. To answer your last post. A male feminist is a fagot. Any woman who embraces feminism has issues and battles with resentment. Thats what feminism does..if fosters hatred and divides the sexes. A man and woman should die to themselves for one and other....I find your attitude prideful, snaring, snobbish and pig headed. Now wake up...no Christian woman who is totally surrendered to Jesus Christ is a feminist.
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Post by valentine on May 18, 2006 22:07:12 GMT -5
Well, you kind of....didn't. And you're still kind of...not.
Don't put words in my mouth. I don't judge people before I know them and assert that they're going to a lake of fire. That's your crowd's deal.
No. The reason your post made no sense to me was that it was so poorly worded that I had no idea what you were trying to say, and the little sense that I did manage to extract did not address the discussion at hand. I've noticed a common pattern on this board: whenever I say something that a member does not wish to respond to, they tell me that I will never understand because I reject the holy spirit and I need to repent immediately. That was exactly what you did. You remind me of a less eloquent version of wkufan. Say something relevant, please, and leave my mortal soul out of it. I'll handle my mortal soul. You handle discussing the topics. I think that's enough responsibility in your hands anyway.
YOU. STOP. NOW.
I will not be answering you again on this board until you retract that statement and apologize. Words cannot express how angry you've just made me. If you do not wish to do this, fine. But know that you just lost your right to get civil responses from me. I do not speak with people who say such things.
Oh, and PS:
Sounds like you sure do think I'm all that and a bag of chips.
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pacp
Full Member
Put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
Posts: 146
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Post by pacp on May 18, 2006 22:58:30 GMT -5
Well, you kind of....didn't. And you're still kind of...not. Don't put words in my mouth. I don't judge people before I know them and assert that they're going to a lake of fire. That's your crowd's deal. No. The reason your post made no sense to me was that it was so poorly worded that I had no idea what you were trying to say, and the little sense that I did manage to extract did not address the discussion at hand. I've noticed a common pattern on this board: whenever I say something that a member does not wish to respond to, they tell me that I will never understand because I reject the holy spirit and I need to repent immediately. That was exactly what you did. You remind me of a less eloquent version of wkufan. Say something relevant, please, and leave my mortal soul out of it. I'll handle my mortal soul. You handle discussing the topics. I think that's enough responsibility in your hands anyway. YOU. STOP. NOW. I will not be answering you again on this board until you retract that statement and apologize. Words cannot express how angry you've just made me. If you do not wish to do this, fine. But know that you just lost your right to get civil responses from me. I do not speak with people who say such things. Oh, and PS: Sounds like you sure do think I'm all that and a bag of chips. I don't like your sprit but I care about your sole. I guess you don't understand that. Please tell me what exactly you want me to answer and what about my post you don't understand. Be specific...I'll explain the new way of thinking thing tomorrow. I can't retract what I said. I wish you would still speak to me. But if do decide not to that's up to you. I believe that men should act like men. Not the other way around. There should be a stigma on that....
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Post by wanderingtrekker on May 19, 2006 0:37:06 GMT -5
Escuse me? EXCUSE ME?
I could argue that everyone who believes the Bible is the infallible word of God is a pig-headed, ignorant, male-chauvanistic (including those without a y chromosome), fool-headed, misled, mother f*cking, b*stard.
But I won't. I won't because making generalized statements about good people due to the way I feel about you is a bad thing. It also wouldn't do anything to add to the civility of this board.
If I was to do this, you would be perfectly justified in demanding an apology before re-engaging me in debate.
A feminist is someone who supports the equality of women. Women can be feminists, but so can men. I believe that if a woman does the same job as a man (and she should be allowed to), that she should be paid the same. Being a feminist is in NO WAY correlated to homosexual tendencies. There are plenty of racist gays and plenty of male-chauvanist gays. There are probably less, proportionally, than in straight culture, however, because once you find yourself discriminated against, you are less likely to do it to someone else--unless you are a fundamentalist.
There is NO NEED for your stupid name calling. How, exactly, does that further the idea of an open forum discussion?
I, for one, demand an apology from you. You should be ashamed, but I have a feeling that you are incapable of the emotion shame. Would you call Jesus a f@ggot? Well, you who have done it to the least of my brothers have done it TO ME.
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pacp
Full Member
Put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
Posts: 146
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Post by pacp on May 19, 2006 6:38:50 GMT -5
Escuse me? EXCUSE ME? I could argue that everyone who believes the Bible is the infallible word of God is a pig-headed, ignorant, male-chauvanistic (including those without a y chromosome), fool-headed, misled, mother f*cking, b*stard. But I won't. I won't because making generalized statements about good people due to the way I feel about you is a bad thing. It also wouldn't do anything to add to the civility of this board. If I was to do this, you would be perfectly justified in demanding an apology before re-engaging me in debate. A feminist is someone who supports the equality of women. Women can be feminists, but so can men. I believe that if a woman does the same job as a man (and she should be allowed to), that she should be paid the same. Being a feminist is in NO WAY correlated to homosexual tendencies. There are plenty of racist gays and plenty of male-chauvanist gays. There are probably less, proportionally, than in straight culture, however, because once you find yourself discriminated against, you are less likely to do it to someone else--unless you are a fundamentalist. There is NO NEED for your stupid name calling. How, exactly, does that further the idea of an open forum discussion? I, for one, demand an apology from you. You should be ashamed, but I have a feeling that you are incapable of the emotion shame. Would you call Jesus a f@ggot? Well, you who have done it to the least of my brothers have done it TO ME. All you guys talk about is "feelings"..attempting to coerce someone into your standards of debating and thinking. I don't see anything wrong with the use of the word fagot. An effeminate man or someone (man) who thinks he is a "feminist" is a fagot. I'm not sorry for saying thak, I believe it to be true and therefore I can't say I'm sorry. They have you so wrapped up in feelings that you can't even go into a restraint without feeling that you are being treated badly. Protect me...if a guy would say that he should be slapped upside the head. Protect me....ya right. What does the Bible say about being wonderfully made and forgiveness. Seek out that truth....why don't ya?? Here is way "your all" so messed up...your NEW WAY OF THINKING....whaooo. Look I care very much about all of you and despite what you have said about me...I'm not offended. So read up and lighten up. The world will not bow to your feelings. www.crossroad.to/Books/BraveNewSchools/3-NewThinking.htm
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Post by valentine on May 19, 2006 9:07:21 GMT -5
I was just waiting for you to find this, Trekker. I could argue that everyone who believes the Bible is the infallible word of God is a pig-headed, ignorant, male-chauvanistic (including those without a y chromosome), fool-headed, misled, mother f*cking, b*stard. But I won't. I won't because making generalized statements about good people due to the way I feel about you is a bad thing. It also wouldn't do anything to add to the civility of this board. And believe me, I almost did. But then I thought about ejuliot, who I actually do enjoy talking to and am friends with. And then I thought about just saying it about him personally, and decided that I needed to be bigger than that. I need to be able to look myself in the mirror. And I care far more about my self image than I care about pacp. Because I am selfish. Yep. That's right. Selfish. And I revel in it. The following is quoted for truth, and in the hopes that he might read it, since he obviously did not read it the first time: [/i][/u][/quote] I, too, will not be discussing with/responding to pacp until he retracts that statement and apologizes. I've said things here that (unintentionally, for the record) conveyed the impression that I was stereotyping to all members of this board, or even all Christians, and I have apologized and corrected it. I wonder why certain members of this board will not show us the same courtesy. Could it be because they're not so into preaching the message of "love" that I have heard so much about?
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pacp
Full Member
Put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
Posts: 146
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Post by pacp on May 19, 2006 10:36:17 GMT -5
No valentine its because we believe that a male acting like a female and a female acting like a man is sinful. Its the whole point I'm making it..."that is what the Bible teaches". Why would I say I'm sorry for that. Refering to a person in terms like sodomite....I don't think its right for "gays" to define and be able to enforce what we refer to them as. A person who identifies himself based on their sexual sins?? It perverse. Doesn't the Bible say, stay away from the effimate one? Its sin..feminists are bitter and their teachings divide the sexes. They teach you to foster resentment. If you "go that way" in your life. Your relationships will fail. The Bible says so. It gives instructions on conduct for men and women. But you would rather listen to messed up women who despise Christ and the Bible. In regards to your "terms" like feminist...read this.. www.crossroad.to/glossary/education.htmwww.crossroad.to/Q&A/education/moral_intelligence.htmwww.crossroad.to/articles2/2002/proctor/tolerance.htmI do care about you....they are leading you down a long dark path. I don't want to see you go that way....if your going to stop talking to me because of the way I think...then quit. You quit because you didn't get it your way. I think you should at least read some of these articles and reply. But its up to you. I think I must follow Jesus and He would give you a strong warning. I did pray about this. The only apoligy I will give you is, if I brused you with my words...I'm sorry that was not my intent to "hurt you"...but to show you the truth. That I can not say I'm sorry for....
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Post by wkufan on May 19, 2006 11:20:23 GMT -5
LOL
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Post by HSTN2983 on May 19, 2006 15:49:08 GMT -5
hmm. i guess i am the unbelieving moron that believed the bible to say that man was created in the image of god. man, not males, but mankind...humanity. man and woman are equal. period. believers should read the ENTIRE bible, instead of using copy/paste on verses they agree with... there is nothing wrong with feminism, because females are not treated as equals...even today, neither are minorities of any race.
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Post by wkufan on May 19, 2006 16:37:50 GMT -5
hmm. i guess i am the unbelieving moron that believed the bible to say that man was created in the image of god. man, not males, but mankind...humanity. man and woman are equal. period. believers should read the ENTIRE bible, instead of using copy/paste on verses they agree with... there is nothing wrong with feminism, because females are not treated as equals...even today, neither are minorities of any race. The experiment in "feminism" is a dismal failure. I'm appalled at the complete lack of respect there is for women these days. And the saddest part is most women play into this. They are too busy trying to "doll" up to be an object of fornication. Many have lost their dignity and pride all for the sins of the flesh and buying into "social marketing". Pathetic. Nothing to be proud of at all. Men have "bought into" this sick concept as well. They run around like dogs in heat. This is an attractive trait? It's pure lack of discipline. Not a thing to boast about.
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Post by HSTN2983 on May 20, 2006 6:29:03 GMT -5
i disagree, i see christianity as the failure. [it] is what is tearing us all apart.
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Post by valentine on May 20, 2006 15:05:27 GMT -5
hmm. i guess i am the unbelieving moron that believed the bible to say that man was created in the image of god. man, not males, but mankind...humanity. man and woman are equal. period. believers should read the ENTIRE bible, instead of using copy/paste on verses they agree with... there is nothing wrong with feminism, because females are not treated as equals...even today, neither are minorities of any race. The experiment in "feminism" is a dismal failure. I'm appalled at the complete lack of respect there is for women these days. And the saddest part is most women play into this. They are too busy trying to "doll" up to be an object of fornication. Many have lost their dignity and pride all for the sins of the flesh and buying into "social marketing". Pathetic. Nothing to be proud of at all. Men have "bought into" this sick concept as well. They run around like dogs in heat. This is an attractive trait? It's pure lack of discipline. Not a thing to boast about. When I compared you to pacp, this is exactly what I was talking about. You made a completely incongruous statement condemning something that has absolutely nothing to do with feminism. How does becoming an "object of fornication" or running around like "{a dog} in heat" have anything to do with a belief in the equality of the sexes? Are you saying that you cannot be a feminist if you A. choose not to have sex and B. do not dress provocatively? Because I hate to break it to you, but I'm kind of... a feminist. And I'm currently wearing sweatpants and a t-shirt.
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shangxin
Full Member
"Who is this lady?"
Posts: 106
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Post by shangxin on May 20, 2006 15:46:42 GMT -5
Feminism is merely the belief that women should be treated as well as men are treated under the law and in society. There are feminists that are bad, sure, but then, there are also Christians who are bad. We need to look at the ideals, not the bad people who muck them up.
Gal 3:28 There can be neither Jew nor Greek, there can be neither bond nor free, there can be no male and female; for ye all are one in Christ Jesus.
You guys are fond of throwing out Bible verses, right?
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Post by HSTN2983 on May 20, 2006 17:56:49 GMT -5
this is what i said...why is everyone throwing monkey feces at me...pacp is the intolerant buffoon.
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shangxin
Full Member
"Who is this lady?"
Posts: 106
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Post by shangxin on May 20, 2006 18:17:20 GMT -5
I never implied to say you were intolerant. If I came across that way, that was not my intention. And yes, pacp, you strike me as very intolerant.
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Post by HSTN2983 on May 21, 2006 4:18:46 GMT -5
ah...you confused me there. we have to be more clear on the internet, because its hard to decipher who a comment is directed to and the emotions involved, i.e. an insult, sarcasm, etc.
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Post by Morluna on May 21, 2006 16:21:06 GMT -5
O_____O WOW.
Since when did sexual orientation have ANYTHING to do with feminism?
"And God created Man. Male and Female, He created them." .... That's all I have to say about this.
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Post by atheistbibleburner on May 21, 2006 17:19:49 GMT -5
I guess you could call me a male feminist, I'm all for women's rights. But im defnitly not a f*ggot. I like the women=P.
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Post by Morluna on May 21, 2006 17:40:26 GMT -5
My sexuality is still debatable, but that really has no bearing on my being a feminist at all...
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Post by HSTN2983 on May 21, 2006 20:31:10 GMT -5
i am a lesbian. i love women! haha, especially my wife..
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shangxin
Full Member
"Who is this lady?"
Posts: 106
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Post by shangxin on May 22, 2006 9:09:42 GMT -5
delete
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Post by wkufan on May 22, 2006 13:48:51 GMT -5
Has a lot to do with it. In the early days of the "movement", the idea that women were treated as "pieces of meat" was a big woman's rights' mantra. Thus, countering the idea that woman were only good for "sexual favors" or "looking pretty", etc. From that standpoint, the "movements" position was noble, in my opinion. However, in today's culture women are even more so deemed as objects of sex and many women willfully promote this idea.
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shangxin
Full Member
"Who is this lady?"
Posts: 106
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Post by shangxin on May 22, 2006 14:36:38 GMT -5
Not as many as you think. And many of them simply don't realize they ARE objects. That's why feminism is so important, to stop this kind of thinking.
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Post by valentine on May 22, 2006 14:49:50 GMT -5
So now feminism="today's culture as a whole"?
Yes, because feminists so believe that women are "pieces of meat."
You're not even trying. Just because some people (or even most people, and I'd dispute that) believe a certain thing about women today, that does NOT mean that feminists do. Most people today think you guys on this board need professional help. Will that stop you from doing what you believe is right?
And in response to the "women as sex objects" view, and my opinion on it, I point you to the wonderful song/video "Stupid Girls" by Pink. That pretty much sums up how I feel. Though I fear that some of you will watch that and the satire will float right over your heads. I also fear that pacp can't spell "satire."
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pacp
Full Member
Put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
Posts: 146
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Post by pacp on May 22, 2006 15:41:18 GMT -5
So now feminism="today's culture as a whole"? Yes, because feminists so believe that women are "pieces of meat." You're not even trying. Just because some people (or even most people, and I'd dispute that) believe a certain thing about women today, that does NOT mean that feminists do. Most people today think you guys on this board need professional help. Will that stop you from doing what you believe is right? And in response to the "women as sex objects" view, and my opinion on it, I point you to the wonderful song/video "Stupid Girls" by Pink. That pretty much sums up how I feel. Though I fear that some of you will watch that and the satire will float right over your heads. I also fear that pacp can't spell "satire." Your so funny Valentine.... Feminism=if it FEELS good do it..aka the empowerment theory..you are your own god. Aleister Crowley=Crowley's most famous teaching, "Do what thou wilt shalt be the whole of the law" became the "mantra" of the 60's revolution of drugs, sexual perversion and ANTI-CHRISITANITY. "Do your own thing" — "If it feels good do it". Feminism=Following Jesus is like being a slave. Aleister Crowley=Aliester Crowley spews his hatred of Jesus Christ in The World's Tragedy: "I do not wish to argue that the doctrines of Jesus, they and they alone, have degraded the world to it's present condition. I take it that Christianity is not only the cause but the symptom of slavery." (Aleister Crowley, The World's Tragedy, p. XXXIX) Maybe you like Lennon bettter?? Lenonon: The Bealtes apparently took Crowley's teaching very serious — Beatle John Lennon, in an interview, says the "whole idea of the Beatles" was — Crowley's infamous "do what thou wilt": "The whole Beatle idea was to do what you want, right? To take your own responsibilty, do what you want and try not to harm other people, right? DO WHAT THOU WILST, as long as it doesn't hurt somebody. . ." ("The Playboy Interviews with John Lennon & Yoko Ono", by David Sheff & G. Barry Golson, p. 61) The ways of feminism and Lennon's are the same as Crowley's. "There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death." God, Proverbs 14;12 Man shall live by every Word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. Do you believe that Valentine??
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