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Post by ejuliot on May 16, 2006 22:59:29 GMT -5
However, my idea's of what is tasteful are not basis for legislation. If you think what is between consenting adults is filthy, then don't have sex with another man. Who is the government protecting by banning homosexual intercourse? I think the fact the you are having sex with another man is disturbing and against God's law but when it comes to legal matters I think Christians can settle for not having to watch homosexuals (and heterosexulas) do nasty stuff on the street on telelvision or have their cause promoted in schools and by the government. After that we leave the legal ground and move into moral ground and your eternal salvation. I have no desire for the government to ban what you do in the bedroom but I would prefer if they stopped you from doing it in public and promoting it as good.
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Post by cervyy on May 16, 2006 23:15:36 GMT -5
If ANY two peeps are doing out in public, ya, they should stop. One would think that would be common sense. Of course, promoting it as good is again guaranteed under FREEDOM OF SPEACH. OA loves to use that until it looks like someone might promote something not "Christian."
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Post by ejuliot on May 17, 2006 0:17:18 GMT -5
If ANY two peeps are doing out in public, ya, they should stop. One would think that would be common sense. Of course, promoting it as good is again guaranteed under FREEDOM OF SPEACH. OA loves to use that until it looks like someone might promote something not "Christian." I am not talking about promoting the worldview in regards to free speech, I am talking about sexual perversion. I don't want to hear or see Hugh Hefner with his play boy bunnies marching down the street doing perverted acts and screaming freedom of speech. Many gay pride festivals and parades have turned into a great big orgy and it is not acceptable according to the law but it is tolerated because if it is stopped the gay community will scream discrimination. I am just speaking on a government level. Morally is an entirely different issue that I will not address in this post. Legally I just ask for decency and then we can tackle the issue on a moral level. I would prefer if the sin of homosexuality was repented of in America, but I do no think that any government law is going to cause that at this point. I just want the government to be fair in upholding free speech to Christan's and stopping the indecency and violence that the homosexual community can get away with that no other racial, political, etc... group can get away with. When it comes to legal issues the scales tip to wards the homosexual community because officials fear being charged with discrimination even to the point of totally ignoring blatant illegal activity. Here are examples: Google image gay pride parade or just gay pride (ever heard of indecent exposure!). www.hamiltonsquare.net/articlesRiotsSep1993.htm watch the videos: www.repentamerica.com/videos.html
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pacp
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Put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
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Post by pacp on May 17, 2006 6:30:32 GMT -5
Flip flops or boots...I guess you kind of narrowed it down for us a little wanderingtrekker. I'll be watching you....
Rights come from God not the government. If they come from the government then they can be taken away.
What you said about the district attorney deciding who gets charges with a hate crime. Is just not true. At least not in Pennsylvania. A police officer can tack on a hate crime charge..why couldn't they. But for the sake of argument. Thats say a case was "refereed to the DA". Where do you think he gets his information from. He gets it from the police....he has to rely on their op ions regarding motive. In any event..I wouldn't trust anybody to decide what was in my heart when I did something...its very political in nature.
Sodomy is filthy, dirty and the gay lifestyle is not a lifestyle its a death style. Sodomites die at a very early age....there are all sorts of diseases associated with it and it causes depression and suicide. Its not right..its not normal....the ones who say being "gay" is OK, they are the oppressors. Jesus said that he came to free the slaves and that whoever commits sin is a slave to sin. Homosexuality is sin and Christ can set you free. Thats what the Bible says...its a message of love and compassion. Our God (love) died for you. For your sins and mine. Wake up....
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pacp
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Put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
Posts: 146
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Post by pacp on May 17, 2006 6:38:49 GMT -5
I just wanted to say quickley that I agree with ejuliot. But I do think that the government has the responsibility to arrest homosexuals for sodomy. A few reasons 1) Because of its effects on society 2) Its effents on the homosexuals thenselves 3) Because if they don't then we get stuck with heather has two mommies And lastly the Bible is correct, its true thats why we should obet it. Its genial.....and has been proves so over thousands of years.
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pacp
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Put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
Posts: 146
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Post by pacp on May 17, 2006 6:58:38 GMT -5
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Post by cervyy on May 17, 2006 8:39:56 GMT -5
Rights come from God not the government. If they come from the government then they can be taken away. Sodomy is filthy, dirty and the gay lifestyle is not a lifestyle its a death style. Sodomites die at a very early age....there are all sorts of diseases associated with it and it causes depression and suicide. Its not right..its not normal....the ones who say being "gay" is OK, they are the oppressors. Jesus said that he came to free the slaves and that whoever commits sin is a slave to sin. Homosexuality is sin and Christ can set you free. Thats what the Bible says...its a message of love and compassion. Our God (love) died for you. For your sins and mine. Wake up.... Well, God might come upm eith the ultimate law, but we got a few of those laws as well comin from the U.S. government that you have to obey UNLESS you want prison. And here, discrimination, not allowed. Move to another country, go, just leave and find somewhere else that supports your bigoted ways. BYE. How is supporting gays oppressing? I'm not forcing staright people to have sex with someone of the same sex. I'm not forcing them to no longer have straight sex. I'm telling them that they're small minded idiots and that gays deserve rights too ... no oppression there. Do you even know what the word means?? You know, if I spend much more time on this board (which I won't be be) I might have to hunt some of y'all down and show you my own message of love (with the same amount of "love" as you're offering). It'll be worth spending the rest of my life in jail. I could be martyr. ;D
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pacp
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Put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
Posts: 146
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Post by pacp on May 17, 2006 9:06:59 GMT -5
Rights come from God not the government. If they come from the government then they can be taken away. Sodomy is filthy, dirty and the gay lifestyle is not a lifestyle its a death style. Sodomites die at a very early age....there are all sorts of diseases associated with it and it causes depression and suicide. Its not right..its not normal....the ones who say being "gay" is OK, they are the oppressors. Jesus said that he came to free the slaves and that whoever commits sin is a slave to sin. Homosexuality is sin and Christ can set you free. Thats what the Bible says...its a message of love and compassion. Our God (love) died for you. For your sins and mine. Wake up.... Well, God might come upm eith the ultimate law, but we got a few of those laws as well comin from the U.S. government that you have to obey UNLESS you want prison. And here, discrimination, not allowed. Move to another country, go, just leave and find somewhere else that supports your bigoted ways. BYE. How is supporting gays oppressing? I'm not forcing staright people to have sex with someone of the same sex. I'm not forcing them to no longer have straight sex. I'm telling them that they're small minded idiots and that gays deserve rights too ... no oppression there. Do you even know what the word means?? You know, if I spend much more time on this board (which I won't be be) I might have to hunt some of y'all down and show you my own message of love (with the same amount of "love" as you're offering). It'll be worth spending the rest of my life in jail. I could be martyr. ;D Well good luck with hunting me down man. You just don't scare me.....I'll be on the lookout though for a pimply faced computer geek...most likely on a skate board, wearing head phones, listing to the Beatles. Whooo.....probably wearing black. What a frighting image. lol... Your oppressing "gays" by leaving them in their death style because its likened to slavery. To be in bondage to sin. As far as what laws I would follow and when. I'm a citizen of heaven.....I'm willing to be imprisoned for my God and die for Him. Would you die for Lennon or his sick music. Discrimination, yes it is right to discriminate against "gays". Like I said, no constitutional right to sodomy and so on. You know way back when, many moons ago, I was a military police officer. I arrested quite a few "gays" under the uniform code of military of justice. It was right then and it is right now.
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Post by cervyy on May 17, 2006 12:49:21 GMT -5
Well good luck with hunting me down man. You just don't scare me.....I'll be on the lookout though for a pimply faced computer geek...most likely on a skate board, wearing head phones, listing to the Beatles. Whooo.....probably wearing black. What a frighting image. lol... Your oppressing "gays" by leaving them in their death style because its likened to slavery. To be in bondage to sin. As far as what laws I would follow and when. I'm a citizen of heaven.....I'm willing to be imprisoned for my God and die for Him. Would you die for Lennon or his sick music. Discrimination, yes it is right to discriminate against "gays". Like I said, no constitutional right to sodomy and so on. You know way back when, many moons ago, I was a military police officer. I arrested quite a few "gays" under the uniform code of military of justice. It was right then and it is right now. Actually, very few pimples, computers confuse me, if I tried to skateboard I'd break something , my headphones are broken, it would probable be something more heathenos like Rammstein and black is SO not my color. Try some natural greens. Sorry, but that's not even oppression. Again, do you know what the word means?? On the other hand there is no amendment saying gay sex is WRONG ... so that means you can do it in the U.S. You will be happy to know that you actually scare me. Conicidently, that fear is leading me AWAY from what is scaring me! Why should I believe someone who uses scare tactics?? Oh wait, a book says so ...
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pacp
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Put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
Posts: 146
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Post by pacp on May 17, 2006 13:03:31 GMT -5
Well good luck with hunting me down man. You just don't scare me.....I'll be on the lookout though for a pimply faced computer geek...most likely on a skate board, wearing head phones, listing to the Beatles. Whooo.....probably wearing black. What a frighting image. lol... Your oppressing "gays" by leaving them in their death style because its likened to slavery. To be in bondage to sin. As far as what laws I would follow and when. I'm a citizen of heaven.....I'm willing to be imprisoned for my God and die for Him. Would you die for Lennon or his sick music. Discrimination, yes it is right to discriminate against "gays". Like I said, no constitutional right to sodomy and so on. You know way back when, many moons ago, I was a military police officer. I arrested quite a few "gays" under the uniform code of military of justice. It was right then and it is right now. What I say, I say with humor...regarding the pimples. Here is the thing....your made threats against me. Meaning you are guilty of hating me and thus murder. You are prideful and blasphemy. You have violated many of God's commandments. Including idoltory...and unbelief. What are you going to do with your sin. The Bible says that God is angry with the unrighteous every day. Someday the cost is going to come due. Actually, very few pimples, computers confuse me, if I tried to skateboard I'd break something , my headphones are broken, it would probable be something more heathenos like Rammstein and black is SO not my color. Try some natural greens. Sorry, but that's not even oppression. Again, do you know what the word means?? On the other hand there is no amendment saying gay sex is WRONG ... so that means you can do it in the U.S. You will be happy to know that you actually scare me. Conicidently, that fear is leading me AWAY from what is scaring me! Why should I believe someone who uses scare tactics?? Oh wait, a book says so ...
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pacp
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Put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
Posts: 146
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Post by pacp on May 17, 2006 13:04:48 GMT -5
What I say, I say with humor...regarding the pimples. Here is the thing....your made threats against me. Meaning you are guilty of hating me and thus murder. You are prideful and blasphemy. You have violated many of God's commandments. Including idoltory...and unbelief. What are you going to do with your sin. The Bible says that God is angry with the unrighteous every day. Someday the cost is going to come due.
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Post by cervyy on May 17, 2006 13:36:06 GMT -5
I said it with a smile, go back and check out the emoticon. That's love baby. Yer just not used to it. Yer used to fear twisting and contorting your perception of things. First and foremost is your own emotions. And in the end, the cost will only come out to taking God and Jesus out for coffee. God's gonna give me a pat on the back when I die and say "Yo, nice job down there!" You just wait!
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pacp
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Put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
Posts: 146
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Post by pacp on May 17, 2006 13:43:37 GMT -5
I said it with a smile, go back and check out the emoticon. That's love baby. Yer just not used to it. Yer used to fear twisting and contorting your perception of things. First and foremost is your own emotions. And in the end, the cost will only come out to taking God and Jesus out for coffee. God's gonna give me a pat on the back when I die and say "Yo, nice job down there!" You just wait! Cervyy, My heart truly goes out to you. Your very sadly mistaken about where you will spend eternity. What reason do you have for not believing the Gospel?
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Post by cervyy on May 17, 2006 13:52:41 GMT -5
Cervyy, My heart truly goes out to you. Your very sadly mistaken about where you will spend eternity. What reason do you have for not believing the Gospel? Well, the Bible I have and you have and John Schmo down the street has ... are not the original documents that make up the Bible. They have been rewritten and translated over and over again. I'm learning German and I know for a fact not everything translates the same, word-for-word, verbatum (sp). And, you must agree, given the change, a pretty less-good person in power or trying to get in power would use any means neccesary to stay in power. PEOPLE have been left in charge of the Bible after God sent them down. People are imperfect and prone to act against how the Book in front of them tells them too. There have been far too many chances for the Bible to be changed purposefully or accidently during translation or before the printing press when they would have had to be written out by hand! I think that's about it in a nutshell.
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Post by Morluna on May 17, 2006 14:46:26 GMT -5
I said it with a smile, go back and check out the emoticon. That's love baby. Yer just not used to it. Yer used to fear twisting and contorting your perception of things. First and foremost is your own emotions. And in the end, the cost will only come out to taking God and Jesus out for coffee. God's gonna give me a pat on the back when I die and say "Yo, nice job down there!" You just wait! Cervyy, My heart truly goes out to you. Your very sadly mistaken about where you will spend eternity. What reason do you have for not believing the Gospel? In addition to the reasons Cervyy just put forth, which I agree with, I would ask you... what reason do you have to believe it (the Bible)? Honestly... just because someone put a book in your hands and said, "this is the word of God" and you decided you would take that person's word for it and believe everything in that book to be true and further, you would interpret many of the vague lines in that book in certain ways and believe it no matter what *deep breath* that's why you believe? Sounds a little far-fetched to my scientifically inclined brain... but excuse me for being soooo overly cynical and blind to the so called "truth." I must have my head stuck in the sand or something if I'm so oblivious that I can't grasp the obviousness of that belief. (/sarcasm)
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pacp
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Put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
Posts: 146
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Post by pacp on May 17, 2006 15:33:10 GMT -5
Cervyy, My heart truly goes out to you. Your very sadly mistaken about where you will spend eternity. What reason do you have for not believing the Gospel? In addition to the reasons Cervyy just put forth, which I agree with, I would ask you... what reason do you have to believe it (the Bible)? Honestly... just because someone put a book in your hands and said, "this is the word of God" and you decided you would take that person's word for it and believe everything in that book to be true and further, you would interpret many of the vague lines in that book in certain ways and believe it no matter what *deep breath* that's why you believe? Sounds a little far-fetched to my scientifically inclined brain... but excuse me for being soooo overly cynical and blind to the so called "truth." I must have my head stuck in the sand or something if I'm so oblivious that I can't grasp the obviousness of that belief. (/sarcasm) Those are great questions Morluna Direvrailian. First off I don't think its unreasonable to believe that God protected His word as he promised. Even Lennon's hero Aliester Crowley wrote, in his book tragic kingdom. That it has been the words of Christ or the Doctrin of Christ that have heald the world in its state of slavery. You would have to believe that God's word is either sets one free, or that it is "slavery" to grant Him lordship and repent. I will write more shortley...I'll be back. We are getting ready for Church...
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Post by cervyy on May 17, 2006 16:34:18 GMT -5
Those are great questions Morluna Direvrailian. First off I don't think its unreasonable to believe that God protected His word as he promised. Even Lennon's hero Aliester Crowley wrote, in his book tragic kingdom. That it has been the words of Christ or the Doctrin of Christ that have heald the world in its state of slavery. You would have to believe that God's word is either sets one free, or that it is "slavery" to grant Him lordship and repent. I will write more shortley...I'll be back. We are getting ready for Church... I look foreward to those answers, but one more thing, Jesse and/or Miles said the same thing. "With God's power, how could he not protect his words?" (not an exact quote, but that is gist, no?) I agree, God is wicked powerful enough to protect his word. How do we know it has just not been another way for God to make sure we're good enough to get into heaven, by protecting his word. For example, he wants us to not lie. Simple little commandment. I bet my bottom dollar God has enough power to make every single person on the planet tell the truth, but he doesn't. We have free will to sin. I fear that the same has happened with the Bible. You have no guarantee that God did protect it. I am with you though in that he could if he wanted to.
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Post by hopefulheart on May 17, 2006 19:56:05 GMT -5
I just wanted to say quickley that I agree with ejuliot. But I do think that the government has the responsibility to arrest homosexuals for sodomy. A few reasons 1) Because of its effects on society 2) Its effents on the homosexuals thenselves 3) Because if they don't then we get stuck with heather has two mommies And lastly the Bible is correct, its true thats why we should obet it. Its genial.....and has been proves so over thousands of years. 1) It's effects on society? Are you sure you're not thinking of drugs and rape and such? Or maybe poverty? Society has been enhanced by a large number of things viewed as 'gay'. 2) Sex itself has effects on people. Don't attempt to single out homosexual intercourse. 3) Heather having two mommies is a problem? As opposed to mommy and aunt Tilly. Or mommy and no one else, since daddy decided not to stay around. My mom has been a mentor, so there are about 3 or 4 girls that consider her their official 'other mother.' What do you have against moms? lol 4) Let's go with your statement that the Bible is correct. Go read it. Without your presuppositions. Openheartedly. With a clean slate. 'Sodomy,' referring to the sin of Sodom, is rape and/or inhospitality, not homosexual intercourse. Funny how people have latched onto such a less reasonable thing to blame. Say it with me now! "Rape - is - wrong!" Hmm.... *makes a mental note about that being useful in the future on a poster, if used correctly*
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pacp
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Put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
Posts: 146
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Post by pacp on May 17, 2006 21:14:19 GMT -5
Those are great questions Morluna Direvrailian. First off I don't think its unreasonable to believe that God protected His word as he promised. Even Lennon's hero Aliester Crowley wrote, in his book tragic kingdom. That it has been the words of Christ or the Doctrine of Christ that have healed the world in its state of slavery. You would have to believe that God's word is either sets one free, or that it is "slavery" to grant Him lordship and repent. I will write more shortley...I'll be back. We are getting ready for Church... I look foreward to those answers, but one more thing, Jesse and/or Miles said the same thing. "With God's power, how could he not protect his words?" (not an exact quote, but that is gist, no?) I agree, God is wicked powerful enough to protect his word. How do we know it has just not been another way for God to make sure we're good enough to get into heaven, by protecting his word. For example, he wants us to not lie. Simple little commandment. I bet my bottom dollar God has enough power to make every single person on the planet tell the truth, but he doesn't. We have free will to sin. I fear that the same has happened with the Bible. You have no guarantee that God did protect it. I am with you though in that he could if he wanted to. Ok...how do I know the Bible is "real" or "true". 1) prophecy....study it you will find out hundreds of things predicted came true to the letter. 2) It is spiritually accurate. The Bible speaks about it being likened to a spiritual sword. It is the hammer that breaks the "rock" to pieces. The rock being the heard heart. The Bible...when unleashed will break a hard heart. It will convict of sin and drive someone to repentance. And fill the void with peace, a sound mind and reassurance. 3) Testomonies...there is evidence of lives changed and people being made new by the Gospel's power to save to the utmost. I've known people who even changed their appearance after they got saved. For instance someone enslaved by their anger...walking around with that heavy weight. When set free took on a peaceful appearance. Test it...it will not fail.
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pacp
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Put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
Posts: 146
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Post by pacp on May 17, 2006 21:16:23 GMT -5
I just wanted to say quickley that I agree with ejuliot. But I do think that the government has the responsibility to arrest homosexuals for sodomy. A few reasons 1) Because of its effects on society 2) Its effents on the homosexuals thenselves 3) Because if they don't then we get stuck with heather has two mommies And lastly the Bible is correct, its true thats why we should obet it. Its genial.....and has been proves so over thousands of years. 1) It's effects on society? Are you sure you're not thinking of drugs and rape and such? Or maybe poverty? Society has been enhanced by a large number of things viewed as 'gay'. 2) Sex itself has effects on people. Don't attempt to single out homosexual intercourse. 3) Heather having two mommies is a problem? As opposed to mommy and aunt Tilly. Or mommy and no one else, since daddy decided not to stay around. My mom has been a mentor, so there are about 3 or 4 girls that consider her their official 'other mother.' What do you have against moms? lol These things you list are the effects of sin on society. Either yours or someones elses. Sin takes a heavy toll. The Bible singles out homosexuals as people who will not enter heaven..save they repent. 4) Let's go with your statement that the Bible is correct. Go read it. Without your presuppositions. Openheartedly. With a clean slate. 'Sodomy,' referring to the sin of Sodom, is rape and/or inhospitality, not homosexual intercourse. Funny how people have latched onto such a less reasonable thing to blame. Say it with me now! "Rape - is - wrong!" Hmm.... *makes a mental note about that being useful in the future on a poster, if used correctly*
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Post by wanderingtrekker on May 17, 2006 23:38:03 GMT -5
Pacp, It will make your posts easier to read if you format them correctly. The way this is done is by adding the "end quote" script after the last part of the quote you wish to quote and the "begin quote" before the next part.
So correctly formatted, a quote should appear like such. If I wanted to quote hopefulheart as saying:
(Hopefulheart's original post) Thought one is this, that thought one is particularly important. Thought two is that I think that thought two is even more so.
Now, I want to address thought one immediately after thought one, so I will do this: {quote] (except that you should use "[" instead of "{".) Thought one is this, that thought one is particularly important. [/quote] Actually, hopefulheart, thought one can be easily refuted by consulting Genesis 1:1. {quote] (again use "[" instead of "{".) Thought two is that I think that thought two is even more so. [/quote] Therefore, hopefulheart, I think that your point about thought two is easily refuted.
Very simply done: [...] opens a format block [/...] closes one. For quotes merely subsitute the "..." with "quote" (don't include the quotation marks).
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Post by wanderingtrekker on May 17, 2006 23:52:27 GMT -5
I think the fact the you are having sex with another man is disturbing and against God's law Well actually ejuliot, I'm sure you will rest more easily knowing that I am not sexually active at the moment. I am in a relationship which has not moved that far ahead yet. Not all gays are promiscuous and sexually insatiable. Of course, not all heterosexuals are monogomous either. The cause of the gay movement is only equality. We don't want to force others to become gay or watch gay people do anything sexual in nature. What we want is the absence of discrimination. What we want is to have the same rights as heterosexual couples (at least 1023 rights at the federal level alone). Think about it this way. Everytime I leave my house, I see heterosexuals engaged in behaviors which are totally acceptable, but which would not be were these couples homosexual. For instance, think about people around you. Do they have pictures of their spouse on their desk? That would be unacceptable for a homosexual. Perhaps they are holding hands on the street or on the subway--unacceptable if gay. Maybe they say "I love you" to their partner as they pass you on the street--ok for straights, not for gays. Maybe a hug, or even a peck on the cheek--ok for straights, not for gays. If you don't want to see "nasty stuff" on tv or on the street, avoid those channels. Avoid places like Peachtree Street during the pride parade. I understand your qualms. I don't enjoy watching extreme public displays of affection either, but what I want, what we want, is equality between gays and straights. Very well. I know of very few people who do the same things outdoors (in public) that they do in the bedroom. However, straight couples get tax breaks in public, gays don't. Straight people can confer citizenship rights to the person they love by marrying them, gays can't.
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Post by wanderingtrekker on May 18, 2006 0:37:14 GMT -5
Flip flops or boots...I guess you kind of narrowed it down for us a little wanderingtrekker. I'll be watching you.... I'm not sure what you mean about footwear. I actually own boots (the hiking kind, nothing to do with S&M or anything you MPs are into (j/k)), but I own no flip flops. Anyway, you are going to be watching me? What does that mean? Were you ignoring me before, or did you find my address and a pair of binoculars? You have made a profound statement in 18th century governmental philosophy! I'm not actually being facetious, either. Thomas Jefferson claimed in the Declaration of Independence that man had inherent rights and that governments existed to protect those rights. You see, in our system, government does not give any rights, they only protect them. Therefore, when it is determined that government is depriving someone of their rights, it is imperative that these rights be obtained once more, if necessary by throwing off the tyrannical oppression of the government. Or in Thomas Jefferson's words: You see, the purpose of government is not to protect taste, but rather to protect the rights of (hu)men. When a government starts abridging rights, when a government starts usurping freedom, it becomes the obligation of the people to "alter or abolish it." And it's up to a jury to decide whether you are guilty. Unless, of course, the police do that in Pennsylvania too. Once again, people are not arrested for hate, they are arrested for doing something else (like disobeying ordinances about free speech zones or blocking the street, etc.) If it is determined that their motives involved hate of one of the predefined groups, the district attorney can file for additional punishment under hate crime statutes. They can file this with more than just a police report in hand, but also using interviews with the alleged offenders, witnesses, and other evidence (such as internet postings or membership in the kkk, for instance). It is up to a jury to convict someone of a hate crime, though. It is the basis for our legal system. Well, you speak of this "lifestyle" as if there was just one. You also seem to disregard the Bible's definition of sodomy (or the sin of Sodom" according to Ezekiel, or is that part of the Bible not relevant? Besides which, since when did filthiness become a basis for the creation of law? Well, some people who are inhospitable do die at an early age. But I will assume that you are not going be Ezekiel's definition of sodomy. Yes, some gay people die at an early age. But then, so do many other groups of people. According to the CIA factbook, in 2003 14,000 people died of HIV/AIDS in the United States (this number is total, not just gays). 44,800 Americans died in car accidents in 2003. Also in 2003, an estimated 16,200 Americans died as a result of falls. This would suggest that people who drive cars are participating in a "deathstyle," which is probably more accurate that you realize. It would also suggest that falling is immoral, by your standards. As for depression and suicide, it isn't homosexuality that causes these rates to increase, it is homophobia. Your comparison is like saying that being Jewish in Germany in the 1930s and 1940s caused you to be depressed, terrorized, and perhaps die. This is not the case. It was actually anti-semitism that caused these things to escalate rather than some inherent trait within Judiaism. Matthew Shepard didn't die because he was gay, he died because some homophobic college students beat him to death in a very brutal manner. Well, you have failed to make an adequate case describing homosexuality as wrong, but you are correct that it is not normal. Normal describes something that is a standard, something that is majoritarian. Homosexuality is a characteristic in a minority section of the population, but the government doesn't see fit to discriminate against blind people, who are also abnormal. Must I remind you that I don't believe in sin? Love does set people free, and homosexuals are capable of love too, but not in the same sense that you know. Homosexuality is about more than sex, homosexuals show affection to members of the same sex in the same way that heterosexuals show affection to the opposite. This is about much more than sex, it is about the way people bond. Jesus' execution was and is a perfect example of compassion. Apparently you and I take different lessons away from it, but that is the beauty of symbols isn't it?
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Post by cervyy on May 18, 2006 11:45:49 GMT -5
Jesus' execution was and is a perfect example of compassion. Apparently you and I take different lessons away from it, but that is the beauty of symbols isn't it? PERFECT! That's just how I feel. Thanks Trekker for having the articulation I lack most of the time.
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pacp
Full Member
Put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
Posts: 146
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Post by pacp on May 18, 2006 12:20:42 GMT -5
Pacp, It will make your posts easier to read if you format them correctly. The way this is done is by adding the "end quote" script after the last part of the quote you wish to quote and the "begin quote" before the next part. So correctly formatted, a quote should appear like such. If I wanted to quote hopefulheart as saying: (Hopefulheart's original post) Thought one is this, that thought one is particularly important. Thought two is that I think that thought two is even more so. Now, I want to address thought one immediately after thought one, so I will do this: {quote] (except that you should use "[" instead of "{".) Thought one is this, that thought one is particularly important. Actually, hopefulheart, thought one can be easily refuted by consulting Genesis 1:1. {quote] (again use "[" instead of "{".) Thought two is that I think that thought two is even more so. [/quote] Therefore, hopefulheart, I think that your point about thought two is easily refuted. Very simply done: [...] opens a format block [/...] closes one. For quotes merely subsitute the "..." with "quote" (don't include the quotation marks).[/quote] Thanks..I'll work on my computer skills.
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pacp
Full Member
Put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
Posts: 146
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Post by pacp on May 18, 2006 12:34:23 GMT -5
Wanderingtrekker, the "I'll be watching you" remark...I was being humorous. Didn't you ever watch the movie Full Metal Jacket. I apologize for the profanity in the movie... but its about life in marine corps boot camp...before don't ask don't tell. You do really need a DI to wake you up a little. Look I think its great to have theses discussions..as it really is the heart of the matter. But its also a rabbit trail. Until you all see your need for a savior and believe what He says about sin. They you will continue to be lost men and women. All I can really tell you is...you sin is killing you. And your school is leading you away from God.
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Post by wanderingtrekker on May 18, 2006 13:29:56 GMT -5
Wanderingtrekker, the "I'll be watching you" remark...I was being humorous. Didn't you ever watch the movie Full Metal Jacket. I apologize for the profanity in the movie... but its about life in marine corps boot camp...before don't ask don't tell. You do really need a DI to wake you up a little. Actually, you are correct. It was before don't ask, don't tell, but gays were still excluded from the military during the Vietnam War. Don't apologize for the profanity in the movie, apologize for supporting war, which is what causes people to say nasty things like that. I do not need a drill instructor to wake me up a little. You do need, however, an english teacher to show you how to use and not abuse the English language. My school is leading me away from God? How is that possible. I have learned more about love and compassion in university than in church. I would say that college is leading me closer to this Agape. Where did you go to college?
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pacp
Full Member
Put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
Posts: 146
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Post by pacp on May 18, 2006 14:00:13 GMT -5
Wanderingtrekker, the "I'll be watching you" remark...I was being humorous. Didn't you ever watch the movie Full Metal Jacket. I apologize for the profanity in the movie... but its about life in marine corps boot camp...before don't ask don't tell. You do really need a DI to wake you up a little. Actually, you are correct. It was before don't ask, don't tell, but gays were still excluded from the military during the Vietnam War. Don't apologize for the profanity in the movie, apologize for supporting war, which is what causes people to say nasty things like that. I do not need a drill instructor to wake me up a little. You do need, however, an english teacher to show you how to use and not abuse the English language. My school is leading me away from God? How is that possible. I have learned more about love and compassion in university than in church. I would say that college is leading me closer to this Agape. Where did you go to college? Yes, I supported the Vietnam war because we were fighting Communism. I didn't support the way we fought it. Now however, as you can see, the communists are teaching on our state college campuses. I don't think I sad anything nasty? The profanity does offend me....but sometimes you have to endure a little of that to "be in the world" and see how things are. I've been to state collage as well. And several other professional schools. My use of the English launguage....well no one is perfect. God can use me despite my butchering of it. I am a very good test taker...but I have always had a hard time with grammar and so on. I recently took a very loooong test to evaluate my intelligence. This was for a class I'm taking to develope "interviewing" skills. I scored lower on English and math....but I was in the top te percent on comprehension and perception. The Prof was impressed...My strength is, I can understand complex situations....but I am not a math or music person. My average in the "Police academy" was 97% and I was 7th in my class of 30. So I am very secure in who I am and what I can do.
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pacp
Full Member
Put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
Posts: 146
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Post by pacp on May 18, 2006 17:29:57 GMT -5
I just wanted to say quickley that I agree with ejuliot. But I do think that the government has the responsibility to arrest homosexuals for sodomy. A few reasons 1) Because of its effects on society 2) Its effents on the homosexuals thenselves 3) Because if they don't then we get stuck with heather has two mommies And lastly the Bible is correct, its true thats why we should obet it. Its genial.....and has been proves so over thousands of years. 1) It's effects on society? Are you sure you're not thinking of drugs and rape and such? Or maybe poverty? Society has been enhanced by a large number of things viewed as 'gay'. 2) Sex itself has effects on people. Don't attempt to single out homosexual intercourse. 3) Heather having two mommies is a problem? As opposed to mommy and aunt Tilly. Or mommy and no one else, since daddy decided not to stay around. My mom has been a mentor, so there are about 3 or 4 girls that consider her their official 'other mother.' What do you have against moms? lol 4) Let's go with your statement that the Bible is correct. Go read it. Without your presuppositions. Openheartedly. With a clean slate. 'Sodomy,' referring to the sin of Sodom, is rape and/or inhospitality, not homosexual intercourse. Funny how people have latched onto such a less reasonable thing to blame. Say it with me now! "Rape - is - wrong!" Hmm.... *makes a mental note about that being useful in the future on a poster, if used correctly* Ok, lets see what the Bible says...is Gandhi the same as Jesus..do you really know who Jesus is. Do you love Him?? Ahh is He your fishing buddy. Lets look without your presuppositions now. Humm you should know the Lords prayer..lets look.. After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. 6:11 Give us this day our daily bread. 6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. 6:13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen see the first point: Hallowed be His name. Holy be His name..He is worthy of worship. Is Ghandi...I think not. Point two: Thy Kingdom come...refering to the kingdom in a persons heart... They will be done on earth as it is in heaven. The angles obey every Word of God. Do you??? Did Gandhi?? Give us this day our daily bread..."bread" referring to food and such. Or same may say strength that comes from God. Forgive us...humm you don't see sin as real. Lead us not into temptation, deliver us from evil For THINE is the kingdom, POWER and GLORY. Its about submission to God..we worship every day based on our conduct. God is Holy....
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Post by wanderingtrekker on May 19, 2006 1:04:49 GMT -5
Yes, I supported the Vietnam war because we were fighting Communism. I didn't support the way we fought it. Now however, as you can see, the communists are teaching on our state college campuses. Well, I suppose I could argue in a similar vein. I opposed Saddam's regime, but I don't support the way America opposed it (war). I also have no problem with communists teaching at universities. Nor do I have a problem with other groups (such as Christians) teaching there. The only time I would have a problem is if said affiliation interfered with the course material (e.g. a communist teaching economics, a fundamentalist teaching biology). No, you didn't say anything nasty. I was referring to the characters in the film. You apologized for their vocabulary, I told you not to apologize, because those words are accurate portrayals of the feelings of soldiers in battle. You should apologize for supporting conditions that would make people say things like that. That is what I was saying. Sorry for the confusion. Perhaps I owe you an apology. I believe you have misinterpreted my intentions. I am not trying to be mean, I am trying to help you. I explain this better in the FSM thread.
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