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Post by davidvalley on Jul 13, 2008 18:29:09 GMT -5
I wanted to get everyone's opinion of rock music. First I want to say though that I don't hate any street preachers and I'm not here to flame anyone. I think in their hearts they believe they are doing the right thing and I respect that but that doesn't mean I will always agree with them.
So seriously I just wanted to bring up this topic because I really like Rock music. I think it brings people together and is the most influential music from the last 60 years.
I hear a lot of people say it is against God but I just can't believe that. For anyone who thinks it is against Christianity could you tell me why you think so?
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Post by HDmatt on Jul 13, 2008 21:19:35 GMT -5
just a thought, an electric guitar isn't inheritently evil in of itself, the heart of the musician is definitely the key element.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Jul 13, 2008 22:48:15 GMT -5
The question is, "what is it glorifying?"
Does it glorify sex, drugs, and violence? Or does it glorify God?
Does it promote disobedience to God's moral law, or does it promote obedience to God's moral law?
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Post by art on Jul 14, 2008 7:14:05 GMT -5
Is anything nOT a sin to you people? I will tell you what is the biggest sin. Street preachers. That is a sin.
Rock rules. Manson, yeah! Or even back with the old people. Ozzy!
Mr. Crowley is the greatest song ever.
When a street ranter rants on the sin of rock music and everything else, it makes me laugh.
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Post by davidvalley on Jul 14, 2008 13:02:47 GMT -5
Is anything nOT a sin to you people? I will tell you what is the biggest sin. Street preachers. That is a sin. Rock rules. Manson, yeah! Or even back with the old people. Ozzy! Mr. Crowley is the greatest song ever. When a street ranter rants abotut he sin of rock music and everything else, it makes me laugh. I have to agree that it makes me laugh too. Street preachers use the same hook as entertainment folks. They cause controversy and people love to watch train wrecks which is usually what I have seen street preachers cause.
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Post by dale on Jul 14, 2008 14:31:15 GMT -5
Let us be careful about the old comment concenrign Ozzy , as I can go back further and recall growing up listening to Alice Cooper.
Of the many serious problems facing America and the world today , I think sin and rock music are two of the lesser ones.
We have had a bornagainer in the white house for nearly eight years now and the USA has never been worse off. The effects of George Bush and his republican coherts worry me more than Manson or whoever the current phenom is.
Rock music is one of the lesser worries I have right now.
I am more scared over the effects of gundamentalists in politics and on the loose as a whole than I am rock music. Guys like Hagee, Dobson, Crouch and the like are a bigger threat to the USA than rock musicians.
I don't consider street preachers a major threat to the world as no sinners take them seriously. Take this board. The street preachers take themselves seriosuly, but they are great comic relief to the rest of us.
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Post by art on Jul 14, 2008 16:37:16 GMT -5
There are two reasons why Christians hate rock music I think.
1. They are weak. The lyrics tempt them to sin as their own faith in a mythical god is not as secure as they believe. They turn to a higher power for relief from temptration and do not get it as the Lord they turn to is a myth. They cannot face the reality of their own supressed lusts and desires the music evokes in them.
2. They hate rock music as it is an easy format for them to rave against. Most normal people love one form of rock or another, from generation to generation and it is thus a spot they can use to condemn others in their sermon and hit home with most passersby. It is like saying anyone who lieks food is a sinner as everyone listening likes food of some kind.
Mr Crowley is the greatest song ever.
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Post by brobreaud on Jul 15, 2008 0:37:16 GMT -5
As far as I know, Bush has never claimed to be born-again, Carter did though.
Brobreaud
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Post by dale on Jul 15, 2008 6:30:20 GMT -5
Maybe not in those exact terms then as born again, I am ntot otallys ure now that you mention it, but he has repeatedly evoked God and praying./talking to him every day. Hey, if you want The Decider as your brother in Christ, you all can have him. Even if I was a Christian I would not want him and definately not Bentley, in the family.
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Post by HDmatt on Jul 15, 2008 7:00:13 GMT -5
who is mr crowley?
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Post by dale on Jul 15, 2008 11:43:02 GMT -5
I guess it is a song. I am guessing here. There are two Crowleys that I can think of, both of whom are of the devil, if you wish to use a Christian term. The first and in my opinion greater evil of the two would be conservative Republican reporter Monica Crowley on Fox news. The more infamous Crowley was the philosopher Alleister Crowley, who embraced the philosophy of "Do what thou wilt." Sounds kind of good to me, but totally against what the Christians want. He was the member of a society called The Golden Dawn, which I do not think exists any longer.
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Post by art on Jul 15, 2008 11:54:40 GMT -5
It is number two I am talking about. Never heard of Monicka Crowley. You can find a midi file and lyrics on the net by a search. The song rules.
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Post by Bornagain218 on Jul 15, 2008 14:44:31 GMT -5
I do think a lot rock songs are sinful and the rock concerts are full of sin, full of drugs,sex and alcohol use. I do like some christian alternative rock bands like Collective Soul and Jars Of Clay , they help calm me and they sing about positive things. I think so long as you don't worship the band as idols it's fine for the most part.
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Post by art on Jul 15, 2008 16:40:56 GMT -5
You make too much sense for a Christian.
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Post by Bornagain218 on Jul 15, 2008 23:00:42 GMT -5
I try to be practical. I think it's what god whats ;D
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Post by dale on Jul 17, 2008 6:37:15 GMT -5
The argument about rock being of the devil has been around even before I was born and since rock started.
I do think rock stars exploit the demonic angle simply becaue they know it will offend older people and Christians, get the young who are naturally rebellious to come to their concerts and use it to sell more stuff.
One of the greatest things for the rock industry was when the idiots at TBN did a whole program in 1980 or so on the backwards masking of records, which in turn got people to play their records backwards, scratch them up beyond repair and cause the need for them to buy new ones.
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Post by debonnaire on Jul 17, 2008 8:54:09 GMT -5
When i was an unbeliever I listened to Blue oyster Cult, The Cramps , New York Dolls and Alice Cooper among other stuff. I never considered I was sinning by listening and enjoying these groups, although it was often accompanyied with alcool and al... When I believed in Jesus , I broke all this stuff into pieces, not because some street preacher told me to do so , but just because I was free at last to do just that. I was not anymore addicted to rock music. I am more scared over the effects of gundamentalists in politics and on the loose as a whole than I am rock music. Guys like Hagee, Dobson, Crouch and the like are a bigger threat to the USA than rock musicians. I don't know one single disciple of Jesus Christ who consider these men as true teachers or prophets of God.... Especially Crouch who is an obvious heretic.
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Post by art on Jul 17, 2008 13:52:37 GMT -5
Instead of breaking your stuff you should have given it to me,. I would take it.
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Post by debonnaire on Jul 17, 2008 14:10:44 GMT -5
Ah , that's too bad i did not knew you at that time, then. ;D
just wanted to add, regarding this thread :
Where the Spirit of the Lord is , there is FREEDOM
When one is really free, he does not need any stuff , and does not need to do (anymore) what other people in the world do [ what does this world and its sytem(s) has to to offer to satisfy the soul of man by the way] .... but instead discover what he did not knew before...the dimension , the length , the width of the love of Christ that surpasses any knowledge... and the former things pass away...
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kenm
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Post by kenm on Jul 17, 2008 14:28:01 GMT -5
Music was created to praise God. Music is a very powerful tool and just as sin has corrupted our lives sin has infiltrated and corrupted music. I will admit that most rock musicians cause controversy in their lyrics just to sell records, but that definitely does not give them any excuse. What really bothers me is when altar calls to accept satan are given at Marylin Manson concerts and many open themselves up for demonic influences and possession.
The devil has always been a counterfeit, so if music can give powerful praise to God he is going to try to get his counterfeit praise through Rock music.
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Post by davidvalley on Jul 18, 2008 15:03:20 GMT -5
Really I don't think there is anything at all wrong with rock music. If people want to sing about hate, drinking, and drugs who is anyone else to judge what they think or say? It does not hurt anyone. It is a completely non violent thing just like any other form of entertainment. People who kill themselves because of a rock song are idiots. It is not the artist's fault. Honestly when most Christians look at rock and don't like it they say they don't like it to make themselves feel better. They want to feel like they are superior to people with long hair or tattoos because they feel that if they are lower than someone like that then they aren't worth as much as they thought. Christianity is laced with all kinds of pride. The bible is contradicted and misinterpreted daily to make christians feel better about themselves. I feel that most christians don't become christians because it is the right thing to do. They do it so they can be saved. How many christians do you think there are would sacrifice themselves to spend eterinity in hell for god? Thats what I thought. And just so you know no this is not the "devil" talking through me. I have my own mind and I am smart enough to use it unlike ignorant false preachers who walk the street judging everyone when they have no right to judge anyone.
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Post by art on Jul 18, 2008 16:55:27 GMT -5
Mr. Crowley ,w hat went on in your head. Mr. Crowley, did you talk with the dead. Who couldnt love lyrics like those.
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kenm
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Post by kenm on Jul 18, 2008 21:57:54 GMT -5
Really I don't think there is anything at all wrong with rock music. If people want to sing about hate, drinking, and drugs who is anyone else to judge what they think or say? It does not hurt anyone. It is a completely non violent thing just like any other form of entertainment. I have my own mind and I am smart enough to use it unlike ignorant false preachers who walk the street judging everyone when they have no right to judge anyone. You say it is ok for people to sing about hate, drinking, and drugs and it is not hurting anyone and it is a non violent form of entertainment, and how it is wrong to judge them for their right to sing about what ever they want. But then you bash ïgnorent" street preachers for doing the very thing you just said was ok. Why is it ok for them to sing about drugs,sex, and drinking but not ok for people to preach about it. Aren't you judging the street preacher and basically doing the very thing you are speaking out against. You can not be hypocritical in your stance or is it only ok only when it goes with the worldly majority. Jesus warned that we are not like this world and we would be hated by the world because the world hates Him. Sometimes the truth hurts but that does not mean it should not be said. It is not out of hate or self glorification that the truth is shared on the streets or in the pulpits but it is out of Love because the truth is very clear. There is a hell and people are dying and going there every second. If one can be saved by hearing the truth, all the name calling and all the sacrifices that people make to spread the gospel are worth it and much more. Because to have the love of Jesus inside us is to have the love for the lost in our soul, that is even love for you no matter how many posts you make denouncing and mocking the ones sharing the Gospel, you are still loved, not your sin, but you.
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Post by davidvalley on Jul 19, 2008 0:07:26 GMT -5
Really I don't think there is anything at all wrong with rock music. If people want to sing about hate, drinking, and drugs who is anyone else to judge what they think or say? It does not hurt anyone. It is a completely non violent thing just like any other form of entertainment. I have my own mind and I am smart enough to use it unlike ignorant false preachers who walk the street judging everyone when they have no right to judge anyone. You say it is ok for people to sing about hate, drinking, and drugs and it is not hurting anyone and it is a non violent form of entertainment, and how it is wrong to judge them for their right to sing about what ever they want. But then you bash ïgnorent" street preachers for doing the very thing you just said was ok. Why is it ok for them to sing about drugs,sex, and drinking but not ok for people to preach about it. Aren't you judging the street preacher and basically doing the very thing you are speaking out against. You can not be hypocritical in your stance or is it only ok only when it goes with the worldly majority. Jesus warned that we are not like this world and we would be hated by the world because the world hates Him. Sometimes the truth hurts but that does not mean it should not be said. It is not out of hate or self glorification that the truth is shared on the streets or in the pulpits but it is out of Love because the truth is very clear. There is a hell and people are dying and going there every second. If one can be saved by hearing the truth, all the name calling and all the sacrifices that people make to spread the gospel are worth it and much more. Because to have the love of Jesus inside us is to have the love for the lost in our soul, that is even love for you no matter how many posts you make denouncing and mocking the ones sharing the Gospel, you are still loved, not your sin, but you. I never said that street preachers shouldn't be allowed to preach the gospel on the street. I was saying that I don't agree with how they do it or a lot of the things they preach about. Don't try and put words in my post that aren't there and try to spin it another way. From what I have seen from msot street preachers most of them do street preach just to get confrontational with people. Just look at just about every street preacher video on youtube. They all escalate with arguments. I think street preachers know they are driving more people away from God and I don't understand why they would continue with the screaming "Your going to hell sinners!" when they know this. IN my opinion most street preachers are no better than The West Buro "Baptist" Church that parades around saying god hates homosexuals and protest at the funerals of soldiers who died so that pricks like that have the right to protest. I know God demands us to be good and I understand that. The bible is filled with tons of things that no one today follows. The problem I have with street preachers is that most of them act like they are more righteous than everyone on the street they are preaching to. More than half the street preachers I have seen are overweight. Technically being over weight is glutony which is a sin. Honestly if street preachers just spoke with people in a calm manner and handed out flyers and stuff for people to read I would have no problem. But they don't do that. They practically threat people with hateful voices on the street and there is no call for that. It is disturbing the peace.
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kenm
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Post by kenm on Jul 19, 2008 0:31:01 GMT -5
What about that person who might hear the truth only through vocal preaching that may not come and take a tract but would stand in the distance and listen to someone preaching.
No preaching should be done with hatred toward anyone or with the intent of pushing people from God.
Most arguments that arise come from the crowd not the preacher.
The guys that do open air preaching on this board that I have heard do not preach Hate to the individual just that individuals sin. That is Biblical God hates our sin, but He loves us.
Even while we were sinners He sent His Son to die for us. That is not hate that is perfect Love. That is what is trying to be preached, and when a person understands the love of God they will understand the filthiness of their sin.
The street preacher is not to be a protester but a proclaimer of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I would say that is quite a bit of difference.
If we truly love someone that we know by God's Word is destined for Hell how can we not cry out and warn them.
And if God's word is yelled or whispered the power still lies in the Word. The preacher is just an instrument. There may be someone in a nearby room that hears from a loud proclamation of the Gospel that may have otherwise never heard.
You may disagree with the method but that does not diminish the power in proclaiming God's Holy Word.
I am sorry brother if my earlier post was putting words in your post. My message is not one of confrontation but conversation that speaks Grace, Mercy, and Salvation through Jesus Christ.
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Post by dale on Jul 19, 2008 6:26:26 GMT -5
One thing I think the Christians constantly miss is they attempt to argue about everything using Jesus and The Bible , with people who believe in neither, yet somehow wonder why it doesn't get anywhere.
Cas ein point with me. Christians constantly say jesus said this or The Bible says this, when I coudlc are less. Whether they believe in the Bible or not or even, entering itnoy our own realm just to make a point, the Bible might be true, I do not believe it is. Therefore telling me or others that this or this needs to be done because it says so in the Bible, just does not have any effect. Someone can tell me Jesus says this or Joihn says this or the Apostle Paul says this and I could care less. Why is this so hard for you all to grasp.
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Post by Bornagain218 on Jul 19, 2008 12:14:17 GMT -5
One thing I think the Christians constantly miss is they attempt to argue about everything using Jesus and The Bible , with people who believe in neither, yet somehow wonder why it doesn't get anywhere. Cas ein point with me. Christians constantly say jesus said this or The Bible says this, when I coudlc are less. Whether they believe in the Bible or not or even, entering itnoy our own realm just to make a point, the Bible might be true, I do not believe it is. Therefore telling me or others that this or this needs to be done because it says so in the Bible, just does not have any effect. Someone can tell me Jesus says this or Joihn says this or the Apostle Paul says this and I could care less. Why is this so hard for you all to grasp. Their are consciences for your actions in this life and the next. The bible states how we should live a healthy life. To sin harms society as a whole. For example if you gay you have a perversions, you will get aids and you will die young. It also breaks the social fabric of society, I mean don't you look at the world and search for answers to it's problems. Drug addiction, pornography, young girls acting like tramps, laziness, and on and on and on. These where not problems in the 50s when most people followed the bible. But the social fabric of society broke down in the 60s due to immigration, the hippies and the feminist movement. People wanted to push the limits of sin. And things snowballed.
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kenm
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Post by kenm on Jul 19, 2008 14:52:29 GMT -5
Dale I do not want to, as you put in an earlier post Way of the Master you, but where do you get your moral guidelines.
I have talked with you and you are not an evil person just lost. Where does your moral guidelines not to kill someone or not steal someones possessions come from if you do not believe in God of the Bible.
If you just say it is the law you must acknowledge that our laws are based from the Bible, so if you do not believe in the Bible than you should not be worried about killing someone if they made you mad or stealing from your neighbor while they are out of town.
It is because you have a conscious. Where did that come from? It came from God so that by nature we know morally what is right and what is wrong.
People do not want to admit there is the one true God and the Bible is accurate but yet they live there lives by their God given conscious in a way that obeys what the Bible commands.
What sends them to hell is refusing to accept Jesus.
I am still praying for you. Oh yeah, I know you were warning about Art not being sincere but there were things posted in those posts that may let people see there is a lost world outside the doors of the church and regardless if they believe it now or not they need Jesus Christ.
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Post by davidvalley on Jul 19, 2008 19:18:22 GMT -5
One thing I think the Christians constantly miss is they attempt to argue about everything using Jesus and The Bible , with people who believe in neither, yet somehow wonder why it doesn't get anywhere. Cas ein point with me. Christians constantly say jesus said this or The Bible says this, when I coudlc are less. Whether they believe in the Bible or not or even, entering itnoy our own realm just to make a point, the Bible might be true, I do not believe it is. Therefore telling me or others that this or this needs to be done because it says so in the Bible, just does not have any effect. Someone can tell me Jesus says this or Joihn says this or the Apostle Paul says this and I could care less. Why is this so hard for you all to grasp. Their are consciences for your actions in this life and the next. The bible states how we should live a healthy life. To sin harms society as a whole. For example if you gay you have a perversions, you will get aids and you will die young. It also breaks the social fabric of society, I mean don't you look at the world and search for answers to it's problems. Drug addiction, pornography, young girls acting like tramps, laziness, and on and on and on. These where not problems in the 50s when most people followed the bible. But the social fabric of society broke down in the 60s due to immigration, the hippies and the feminist movement. People wanted to push the limits of sin. And things snowballed. ' WRONG. Were you around in the 50s? What are you basing the claim that the 50s was so good on? Leave It To Beaver reruns? The 50s wasn't any better than it is today. Want to know why it didn't seem like it at the time? Because people hid their natural instincts to think for themselves. Today it is a much more creative and more accepting world. Sure there is a lot of clashing between cultures but that should be expected. There is no one in this board or in this whole world that can tell me that there are people who are more evil than their are good. Back then people would persicute anything that wasn't in the norm even if it made things better. I know my history and anyone who lived in a lower class family in the 50s will tell you that it was no Leave It To Beaver. Lets get back to the topic of the thread and look at Elivis for a minute. That was just the type of thing that most people would persicute because it did not seem right to "them". But the thing is it is not up to any of us to decide what is right and what is wrong there for we have no way to say what is evil and what is not when it comes to non-violent things such as music. This is how I see it. If you rape someone you are bad. If you kill someone you are bad. If you steal you are bad because you did not work for it.(That might as well go with big business who trick people with the addiction of food and ciggeretes as well but I'm not gonna get into that.) If you fight for sport such as MMA that is okay becaue most of those guys have genuine respect for eachother making it no worse than football. Now if you go and beat someone up just because you don't like them I don't agree with that. You can't make black and white out of gray no matter how much you want to believe there is a true straight way to live. The reason we aren't suppose to judge others is because we don't know what kind of life other people have gone through. The only people we should be judging is ourselves. Unless you are completely free of sin there is no reason for you to walk the streets yelling to other people that you do not know to join your religion.
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Post by Bornagain218 on Jul 19, 2008 20:37:29 GMT -5
Their are consciences for your actions in this life and the next. The bible states how we should live a healthy life. To sin harms society as a whole. For example if you gay you have a perversions, you will get aids and you will die young. It also breaks the social fabric of society, I mean don't you look at the world and search for answers to it's problems. Drug addiction, pornography, young girls acting like tramps, laziness, and on and on and on. These where not problems in the 50s when most people followed the bible. But the social fabric of society broke down in the 60s due to immigration, the hippies and the feminist movement. People wanted to push the limits of sin. And things snowballed. ' WRONG. Were you around in the 50s? What are you basing the claim that the 50s was so good on? Leave It To Beaver reruns? The 50s wasn't any better than it is today. Want to know why it didn't seem like it at the time? Because people hid their natural instincts to think for themselves. Today it is a much more creative and more accepting world. Sure there is a lot of clashing between cultures but that should be expected. There is no one in this board or in this whole world that can tell me that there are people who are more evil than their are good. Back then people would persicute anything that wasn't in the norm even if it made things better. I know my history and anyone who lived in a lower class family in the 50s will tell you that it was no Leave It To Beaver. Lets get back to the topic of the thread and look at Elivis for a minute. That was just the type of thing that most people would persicute because it did not seem right to "them". But the thing is it is not up to any of us to decide what is right and what is wrong there for we have no way to say what is evil and what is not when it comes to non-violent things such as music. This is how I see it. If you rape someone you are bad. If you kill someone you are bad. If you steal you are bad because you did not work for it.(That might as well go with big business who trick people with the addiction of food and ciggeretes as well but I'm not gonna get into that.) If you fight for sport such as MMA that is okay becaue most of those guys have genuine respect for eachother making it no worse than football. Now if you go and beat someone up just because you don't like them I don't agree with that. You can't make black and white out of gray no matter how much you want to believe there is a true straight way to live. The reason we aren't suppose to judge others is because we don't know what kind of life other people have gone through. The only people we should be judging is ourselves. Unless you are completely free of sin there is no reason for you to walk the streets yelling to other people that you do not know to join your religion. You just don't get it, what starts with mere sins and it manifested itself into actions. It's like marijuana is a gateway drug and leads people into hard drug addiction. I do know and talk to a lot of older people and from their actions and what they told me it was a lot more humbler time where people respected and help one another and live according to the bible for the most part. The Methodist church and Baptist churches used to be very important to the an Americans way of life. The rock and rap bands are just another outlet for sin, they encourage young people to live a sinful life in all their songs, and these kids don't know any better. Music is and always will be important to kids, but nowadays it means getting drunk and on drugs while listing to it. It keeps getting worse and worse, and my theory is it's going to end with the second coming of Christ.
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