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Post by fs on Nov 8, 2008 20:24:04 GMT -5
Kureji, you are on my heart,. I am sending you a private message. Some of the brothers here advised me not to even deal with you all any more, but I will not give up as if people fave up on me, they would have quit and I would be dead or in hell. I pray for you. Please take my message to heart as I may just give up on you. You are trying me and trying Jesus. You may run out of time
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Post by fs on Nov 9, 2008 8:28:43 GMT -5
Incidently, I have not forgotten The Good Doctor Who. Stop idiolizng a tv character. Idolize Jesus Christ!
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Post by Kureji on Nov 9, 2008 12:35:33 GMT -5
Yeah go ahead and cry more, it doesn't make your hell or your sky wizard anymore real. I'm the one who should be crying for you, being the brainwashed pawn of Christianity that you are.
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Post by thegooddoctorwho on Nov 9, 2008 12:52:31 GMT -5
Incidently, I have not forgotten The Good Doctor Who. Stop idiolizng a tv character. Idolize Jesus Christ! *GASP* Somebody got the reference! But, the Doctor is so much better of a role-model. He's an intelligent guy who travels through time and space in a blue police box, righting wrongs and doing good. He also never threatened to burn me alive for all eternity, which is always a plus. I'm glad that you still want to talk to us, as opposed to ignoring us like Jesse and all the rest. I mean, he SAID he cared about my immortal soul when he was here, but... he sure isn't acting like it... *sniff* But really, don't give it up. I'll tell you right now that simply repeating phrases from the Bible and telling me that I'll be cast into a lake of fire [glow=red,2,300]that I don't believe in[/glow] is not going to make me start believing the Bible. But who knows? One of these days you might stumble upon a valid reason for believing, at which point I implore you to share it with me. One question: Are you seriously not attracted to women anymore? Like, you don't even give a second glance to a pretty girl or anything? I guess you can "cure" anything if you repress it enough.
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Post by fs on Nov 9, 2008 13:27:00 GMT -5
Jesus took my past sin and wicked desire from me, but I cannot marry you if you are looking as a nonbeliever and believer cannot be unequally yoked.
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Post by thegooddoctorwho on Nov 9, 2008 14:32:38 GMT -5
Whoa! ;D Slow down, we haven't even dated yet.
I was simply inquiring as to whether you ever have thoughts about other women, since you were "cured" and all. Actually, I don't think that the Bible ever actually says anything about lesbianism. Apparently, only "man lying with another man" and "effeminate men" are against the rules, at least as far as I've ever read into it.
Anywho. You said in a different post that you believed in God before you were actually "saved." Can you tell me why you believed in him in the first place? What led you to the conclusion that he existed to begin with?
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Post by fs on Nov 9, 2008 14:48:30 GMT -5
I believed in A God so to speak and not THE GOD. I believed there was something , even in my darkest hours and believed that what I had been taught growing up in a Baptist hosuehold was wrong. I rebelled and rebelled big time. Later, I came back to the Baptists and am one now, as far as denomiantions go, but first and foremost I am a follower of Jesus Christ and not a denomination. If said parents knew half of what really went on for a time! I am going back tonight. Pastor Powell is a great man of God.
No. I no longer think of other women. Should I be tempted, well, resist temptation and it will flee from you. Youa void putting yourself into any position where you might stumble, plain and simple.
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Post by Kureji on Nov 9, 2008 15:01:15 GMT -5
sounds like you're idolizing pastor powell, we all know what happens to idolaters
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Post by thegooddoctorwho on Nov 9, 2008 15:13:22 GMT -5
It sounds like you were in a bit of a troubled situation, and you chose religion to bring you out of it. A set of morals and all of that. Actually, that seems a bit like Jesse's reason for believing too.
However, is it possible that you simply needed a stronger set of morals and a reason not to drink, smoke, etc.? Perhaps there was no "magic" involved at all, and returning to Christianity was simply the easiest way to reinforce your own willpower, but I believe that you were quite capable of pulling yourself out of whatever problem you were in on your own.
I, and many other people, have morals without getting them from the Bible. I believe that stealing is wrong. If I tell a lie to someone, I feel bad. It's not because any deity told me that those things were wrong. It's because I know that doing them over the long-term is a detriment to society, and both of those actions hurt other people. What is the detriment to society of lesbianism? Who is hurt when a woman is attracted to another woman? (aside from God, because we haven't established that he exists.)
Did you believe that lesbianism was wrong, and THEN become a Christian? Or did you become a Christian to fix other problems, and abandon lesbianism as a result?
Lastly, let's say that some sort of magic (miracle, etc.) was necessary to turn your life around. Why specifically believe that it was the work of THIS deity and not any other? Sure, the Bible says there is only one God. If there is a Hindu holy text (I don't know) then it probably says that there are many gods. Why believe one book instead of another?
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Post by cervyy on Nov 9, 2008 21:27:47 GMT -5
*GASP* Somebody got the reference! But, the Doctor is so much better of a role-model. He's an intelligent guy who travels through time and space in a blue police box, righting wrongs and doing good. He also never threatened to burn me alive for all eternity, which is always a plus. Psh, I got it the second I saw it ... though I did just come back. The Doctor is so much better than what the "Christians" here demand we submit to. Big reason in my Book? (And yes, I do realize he is a character on a TV programme). Your Jesus says to follow Him, spread His word or suffer in Hell. The Doctor only ever risked his live for others and only threatened them after he knew they would be killing, enslaving or in general being MEAN to others. That in and of itself got more loyalty than what I've seen of the fundies. You have your fictional character from a book, and I've got mine. Difference? Mine doesn't die, he just regenerates.
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Post by fs on Nov 10, 2008 8:55:45 GMT -5
Jesus is Lord and Jesus is real. He can be real and manifest in your life too. All other gods are imagianry as that is where faith comes in and that is somethign believers have. You cannot take that from us. Greater is he that is in me than he that is in the world.
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Post by thegooddoctorwho on Nov 10, 2008 11:21:13 GMT -5
How do you know the other gods are imaginary? We've already established that you are willing to believe in something by faith, because there is no evidence for any of them. So if you're going to believe in something based on faith only, why specifically choose the Bible over any other religious text?
I'm not trying to take your faith from you, I'm simply asking why you have it for God and not say, Vishnu? What makes one book without any evidence for its claims any better than any other book without any evidence for its claims?
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Post by Kureji on Nov 10, 2008 11:26:51 GMT -5
You know one of my favorite little possible beliefs for supreme beings is that all Gods thought up by man actually exist because we willed them into creation. Not only that but these beings gain power from those who worship them. So naturally, the Christian God comes up with the idea that all other God's are demons and you should stop worshipping them and worship him instead. Though if thats true it'd actually mean that we created God instead of the other way around. *shrugs* I thought it'd be an interesting idea.
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Post by fs on Nov 10, 2008 16:17:06 GMT -5
Who is Vishnu?
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Post by Kureji on Nov 10, 2008 16:48:52 GMT -5
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Post by fs on Nov 10, 2008 17:40:12 GMT -5
Why would I educate myself on a false god?
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Post by Kureji on Nov 10, 2008 18:15:11 GMT -5
Like school house rock says, "knowledge is power"
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Post by thegooddoctorwho on Nov 10, 2008 19:45:48 GMT -5
Why would I educate myself on a false god? The point is, there is just as much evidence for the existence of Zeus, Vishnu, and Odin as there is for the existence of God. That being the case, what makes it better to believe in God? Why do you think that he is real, but not the others? Is it because the Bible told you to? Well, why is the Bible more believable than any text telling you to believe in any of the others? Is it because the Bible told you it was? Again, the other texts most likely say that they are true too. Why believe that the Bible is true, but they are not-- given that none of them, including the Bible, give any sort of evidence for their claims? Is it because the Bible told you to? Well, why believe that without any proof? Is it because the Bible told you to? Well, why believe it? Do you see the circle beginning to form?
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Post by fs on Nov 10, 2008 20:53:06 GMT -5
Okay look, if you won't read the bible, find and read the book Evidence That Demands A Verdict. That covers a load of the excuses and things you bring up.
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Post by thegooddoctorwho on Nov 11, 2008 1:27:56 GMT -5
Okay look, if you won't read the bible On the contrary, I've read significant portions of the Bible throughout my life. I know more about it than some Christians that I've met. You have yet to answer any of my questions, by the way...
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Post by fs on Nov 11, 2008 6:19:25 GMT -5
You have asked, but asked amiss......
Just do me a favor and check out Evidence That Demands A Verdict from the library. Read it with a more open hearta nd midn than you must have had when you read the Bible. This book was written by a man who started out as a nonbeliever looking to disprove the Bible and a beautiful behind the scenes story as he dove into the reseacrh and found what he wanted to say was false and a lie was the truth.
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Post by thegooddoctorwho on Nov 11, 2008 15:55:22 GMT -5
Again, I must contradict you here and say that I HAD an open mind when I read the Bible, and I continue to be open to the possibilities. However, it's a bit of a logical fallacy to tell me that "if you read it, and you don't believe it, you didn't have an open mind."
If someone hands me a note one day, and it says: "Pink and blue zebras exist. They are magical creatures who hold power over the destiny of your soul." Well, obviously, that's a bit silly. But if he tells me to read it with an open mind, and I do, does that mean I have to come to the conclusion that it is true? If I don't subscribe to the view that pink and blue zebras exist, but I decide to keep the possibility in mind until this man can prove it to me, am I not being open enough to his ideas?
The point is, there are several million books with ideas in them about how I am supposed to live my life. The authors of those books probably all wish that I would devote my life to the messages therein. Why should I then choose to follow the advice of the Bible over any of the others?
That's the question. Since I now do not expect to get any sort of answer to it, I'll look into the book you suggested. It's going to be a while, though, and I have no intention to stop questioning the matter until then.
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Post by fs on Nov 11, 2008 16:03:27 GMT -5
Good, at least read it.
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