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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Mar 19, 2009 19:57:46 GMT -5
That's a legitimate question and I'm glad you're thinking these things through...
Not EVERYone who goes into a bar is leaving intoxicated. Not everyone who goes into a bar is a drunkard.
While a bar is a popular place for that sin, it is also a place where, I'd say, the majority of the time, people are comfortable indulge themselves in whatever way they want.
On a Friday or Saturday evening, you're more likely to find a crowd at a bar rather than outside a Library or courthouse. When I was travelling full time during the week we would preach on college campuses on topics like evolution, atheism, humanism, etc. etc... and that weekedn we would preach near the local bar or nightclub area and preach against drunkeness, lust, etc.
I remember one St. patrick's Day we were in Arkansas I believe and had been preaching on a campus ALL week - we went to the bars to preach on St. Pat's day and students from the campus who got the gospel all week, got it again when they went out to forget about it.
I have seen the Holy Spirit cause drunkards to sober up in an instant - you can't even smell booze on their breath!
Recently I preached in Dallas, TX in Deep Ellum outside a crowded bar and into the wee hours of the morning, there were several people sitting on the curb listening quietly.
When I preach, I usually don't engage an intoxicated person for very long, because, like you said, they can't think straight. When preaching open air and a person who is completely intoxicated confronts the preacher, it is extremely hard to reason with them and most of the time they are only helpful in drawing other people's attention.
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Mar 19, 2009 19:12:55 GMT -5
There are some folks who think all you should preach is scripture alone. There are some folks who think you should preach scripturally and use what is relative around you.
Either way, *practically* speaking, you need to expose sin, lift up Jesus, grab the attention of the hearers (without compromising righteousness), and engage the people.
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Mar 19, 2009 18:37:21 GMT -5
...btw...I'm nobodies "minion!" lol.
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Mar 19, 2009 18:35:00 GMT -5
I wouldn't be doing this out of some kind of selfish indignation - but out of serious concern for the public.
P.s. I'm not trying to judge your walk with the Lord. I'm just discussing the topics broached here. :-)
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Mar 19, 2009 18:31:05 GMT -5
We should ALL be soul winners, yes indeed! I didn't mean to disparrage anyone's soul winning efforts! Let me reiterate: God bless you for all your endeavors for the Kingdom of God! ...From my experiences, often the critique of open air preaching will often come from those who don't do it very often. Whether it be One-on-one witnessing, tracts, serving at soup kitchens, or bullhorn preaching at a homosexual parade - (and this goes for ALL of us, OA preachers to those who leave tracts in public places) - we should never base our success on how many people were won to the Lord, but on our obedience to the Bible. Now I know some use this as an excuse to stand on a street corner and scream - which no one should do, in fact Charles Spurgeon urged preachers: "For Heaven's sake, don't SCREAM!" But lifting your voice, even shouting, is often necessary when preaching the Gospel. You can't just preach to the five people in the front of the crowd. While none of us will ever be as eloquent or "successful" as Wesley or Whitefield - they had their times where people scream at them, even climb trees and expose themselves at them! Let's sincerely clarify something, FS, what is the pride that you see? Could it be something that may be misconstrued? Is it a stretch? Or is it something blatantly prideful? This probably could be construed as me attempting to swing in to Jesse's rescue. LOL... I'm pretty sure Jesse can handle himself, this is just me discussing. Please know I don't have any hard feelings toward FS or Ousley. I'm not out to get you, but I am defending my position and thoughts (with the limited internet service I have ) God bless!
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Mar 19, 2009 11:38:47 GMT -5
So...
FS, Housley: When and where are you folks doing your next open air outreach?
Spring break revellers, like all sinners, are full of selfishness! That doesn't need to be catered to, but rebuked!
I have had interactions with officers who either A: allow their personal feelinsg egt in the way of enforcing what the law is or B: have no idea what the law states. when it comes to an open air scenario - while all things must be done in respect to their position, there is no time for "niceties" and beating around the bush!
Just because someone KNOWS what they are talking about when it comes to legal issues and theological issues and can hold their own in a discussion, debate, or procuring rights doesn't mean they are prideful or have a big ego!
I'm so tired of people thinking that Christians need to be "nice" all the time. Yes, our speech should be with grace and seasoned with salt, as scripture says, but that doesn't mean we must preface everything we say with "I love you" or "god loves you."
Ousely: I'm glad to know you are a soul winner! God bless you for that!!
But while serving and doing charitable work is biblical and wonderful, there is a need for the public preaching of the Gospel: rebuking sin and lifting up Jesus.
It is HUMANISM to think we need to go around meeting "the needs" of people every single time we do ministry. Their greatest need is to come to Christ, repent and follow Him!
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Mar 19, 2009 11:25:04 GMT -5
I would have done the same.
The man was dangerous. Could you imagine what someone like that might have done if some good "samartian" in the crowd to to restrain him from venting his anger? Selfishness knows no bounds.
The First Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, John Jay, once sentenced a man to death for a brutal crim he committed. John Jay, being a godly man, a well saved christian, stated that it was his wish that while the man was awaitinge xecution some days later that he would seek God and repent of His sins to obtain God's mercy and inherit the Kingdom of God. The man was still executed...
All that to say: The law without enforcement/punishment is merely a SUGGESTION and not a law at all.
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Mar 18, 2009 10:03:16 GMT -5
To explain a little further:
The biblical idea of repentance is not a work. It's a change of mind. A change of heart and the will to follow God.
If repentance were a work, then you would need to lump "belief" into the same category
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Mar 17, 2009 18:43:00 GMT -5
As the weather gets nicer, I want to put together some regular weekend outreaches here in East Texas.
Any Texans out there want in on the loop?
Just PM me!
god bless!
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Mar 17, 2009 18:18:22 GMT -5
You're so right when it comes to finding that comfort and security in age old traditions and humanistic theological cliches that have survived the ages.
Many "doctrines" have only survived thus far because of their ear tickling, conscience numbing effect.
God bless.
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Mar 5, 2009 19:01:46 GMT -5
Tony,
I agree with you... you shouldn't preach to be intentionally inflamatory or insulting. But many times, all you have to do is quote the Bible and all Hell breaks loose.
Michael Marcavage has his reasons for his behavior when he is being arrested - but I think the best route is to be quiet and go willingly. (Then sing your soul out while in your cell. LOL).
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Mar 5, 2009 18:59:05 GMT -5
That's right, FS... we can't save the whole world. But keep it up!
I've done some abortion counseling/protesting... Ministering to a woman who just had an abortion must be difficult - because they are in pain and will continue to be in emotional and mental pain as well, they are confused, but they are also a murderer with fresh blood on their hands.
Keep being a Christlike light in this woman's life. God bless you in all the times you share the Gospel with her.
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Feb 17, 2009 12:20:35 GMT -5
I am not making an endorsement of Rush Limbaugh, but he once told the historical account of the true "First Thanksgiving." It's the story of the birth of Capitalism in America.
They started with the idea that everyone gets a fair share of the goods produced and made not matter what. But then the lazy folks were getting the same as the hard working folks... eventually leading to a very hard winter. But when they divied up the land and said "here! It's yours to take care of and produce." and the indians helped them understand better how to grow in that climate - they had such an overabundance, they were able to share with the Indians.
That by no means does justice to how the story goes in full... but I think you get the jist.
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Feb 16, 2009 20:23:36 GMT -5
"Took him to task???"
I don't participate too much on these boards. Occasionally. But I do observe often. Most of the people Christian and unchristian alike were banned from the board because they were not backing posts with scripture and intentionally being insulting.
There's got to be SOME semblance of order - even on the internet.
Today's view of Christians is this namby-pamby lilly livered soft boy sissy who is supposed to let everyone walk all over him and have their way with him and all he does - which is a load of post modern humanistic trash.
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Feb 16, 2009 20:16:01 GMT -5
So Judgment... Are you for socialism or not?
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Feb 16, 2009 20:10:50 GMT -5
I taught a class about persecution once, and I suggested that it's perfectly fine to defend yourself by fleeing, ducking and or calling the police. And I certainly think that is within loving your neighbor and enemy to subdue someone who may be threatening the life of someone, even YOU...because if they are going to hurt your (assuming for preaching the Gospel)...what would they do to someone who really crosses them?
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Feb 13, 2009 10:20:30 GMT -5
There's a difference between raising support and submitting to socialism!
If that isn't the case, then goodness, Paul did atrocious things in the Bible.
Becareful, FS, when you tell other people what they think or what they know.
Socialism IS awful. Asking people to support a ministry is biblical - depending on your heart motive. When someone gives to a ministry, the Bible says in Philippians they will take part in the fruit that is harvested from it.
I've known Jesse for quite a while now - he works HARD.
It's NOT easy to do what he does. I've travelled with him full time before. Standing on a campus for 5-7 hours, sometimes 5 days a week, then to spend the night on the streets doing ministry during the weekend is a hard field to plow and Jesse's been doing it for going on 5 years without looking back.
Open Air Outreach needs the support of generous Christians who see the importance of that work. As do foreign missionaries and nationals, pastors, evangelists, etc.
Sometimes the way God provides isn't through manna from heaven, but from His people.
FS, you seem very sincere in your posts and questions. God bless you for that, just becareful what you assume.
Sincerely, Jeff
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Feb 12, 2009 12:41:47 GMT -5
Tyler Junior College, here in Tyler Texas is a bit of a thorn in my side in regards to preaching.
Jesse and I have been banned from the campus on a number of occasions and Jesse was actually arrested here once on trumped up charges.
My wife is currently taking classes to be a dental hygenist and very soon I will be taking a night class to become certified as an EKG Technician.
I am hoping and praying that this will qualify me as a student of TJC, thus meeting the administrations shoddy criteria to preach the Gospel smack in the middle of the campus.
Just though you'd all like to know so you could pray and watch for updates. God bless!
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Feb 12, 2009 12:38:09 GMT -5
I've been a member of this message board since its inception.
Dan rode a see-saw on this msg board between being outrageous and unteachable to loving and understanding and back again.
I pray Dan's doing well and I'm sure if he ever wants to participate on this board again, he'll be more than welcome to do so, as long as he remains civil and willing to back up posts with scripture - just like everyone else is expected to.
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Feb 12, 2009 12:35:07 GMT -5
so...how should they preach?
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Jan 30, 2009 17:27:48 GMT -5
Hi folks!
Sorry it has been way too long since I've been on the boards.
It's been very hectic down here in TX.
First: LauRen and I are expecting another child! It is due on aproximately our first child Evelyn's birthday!
Second: We have beautiful new apartment for our family!
Third: Shortly after moving in I was laid off again (January 1).
I am still seeking for a job.
LauRen is going to school to become a dental hygienist,
And in order to make our family some income I am considering getting certified to be an EKG technician as they are building a new cariovascular clinic in our town.
It's been difficult to get out and do public ministry because of familial obligations - but we are very active in our church. LauRen is over the Toddler department. And I am in charge of planning outreaches!
Soon we'll be able to implelement an evangelism class and I will also be teaching a biblical foundations class!
Our church is very biblically sound! Believing and acting out very key doctrines, and not succumbing to what the world says is popular. Our elders are very godly people who know their Bible and have their spiritual and physical priorities straight.
We are so excited to be a part of this part of the Body of Christ. They truly are our family.
I am itching to go out and do some public ministry again! Either on a campus or the streets. Cold weather prevents that sometimes, but lately it's been getting nicer and nicer.
Please pray for our family, and that the Lord would provide. Also for LauRen as she enters into this second pregnancy.
If you have any questions, commments, concerns, word from the Lord, etc. Please feel free to email me. I'm not online very much as we don't have internet access regularly!
God bless!
Sincerely,
Jeff Olver jeff.olver@comcast.net
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Jan 29, 2009 16:48:00 GMT -5
Awesome Joel! We need to get together again! It's been too long! I'm sure Tor is getting BIG!
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Dec 11, 2008 13:11:57 GMT -5
LOL
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Dec 7, 2008 15:04:18 GMT -5
Something that often clarifies conversations with Christians who are stymied by this topic is usually when I say "You turn away FROM sin TO Jesus" Like one motion. Typically people agree with me on this point.
I am tired of repentance being looked at as a "work" when it so clearly outlined in scripture as a necessary part of salvation.
If repentance were a "work" then could we consider "belief" a work as well? I mean come on, you once were NOT believing, and now you are engaging your mind and heart to believe - sounds like an awful lot of work to me! ;-)
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Dec 3, 2008 9:43:08 GMT -5
Starting this Saturday I'm starting a New Believer's class at my church to help disciple some of the people who commited their life to the Lord during the Hell House in Tyler during the Halloween season.
We'll be using some great biblical disciplship tools and some great mentors from the church will be involved (tonight is actually their training session for the class).
Please keep the mentors and the new believer's in your prayers!
If any of you feel moved to and would like to donate to the class to fund things like refreshments, materials and transportation costs, or if you have any tips or advice to share please PM me.
Thanks and God bless!
Jeff
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Nov 12, 2008 11:23:35 GMT -5
Amen!
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Nov 11, 2008 8:45:43 GMT -5
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Nov 9, 2008 22:17:32 GMT -5
If free will didn't exist this is what some of these verses should read like:
"And the Lord said unto Cain, I have made you wroth, and I have caused your countenance to fall. You will not do right nor will you be accepted. I have put sin at your door and it shall rule over you."
"I call heaven and earth to record this day against you. I will make you choose life or death."
"I have decided this day whom you will serve."
"Only those who I want will seek and find me. Call upon me ye who I have determined to call upon me. The wicked will not forsake their way, I will give the unrighteous man his thoughts..."
"God decides everywhere who he wants to repent."
"The Spirit and the bride decide who come, those who they have decided to have ears will hear, those who they have made thirsty will come, and whosoever we have determined let them take as much water of life as we have measured out for them."
I think you get the point.
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Nov 6, 2008 19:20:22 GMT -5
Sometimes college journalists are a joke - some are actually very good. It's hit and miss.
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Post by Jeffrey Olver on Nov 5, 2008 12:38:53 GMT -5
Someone on one of Jesse's YouTube video comments basically said Presuppositional apologetics only works because of the presupposition of Total Depravity.
Thoughts???
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