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Post by cervyy on Sept 8, 2006 19:19:07 GMT -5
This Q has been ignored, and I need an answer.
Here's what I originally said in another post
"I also have to ask, don't you see that if you don't allow gays to marry you then trying to force your ways on them?? You don't see anything wrong with that?? I thought people had to turn to your Jesus of their own accord. You are in essence, NOT giving them the choice. Because I am sure that this is just a gateway drug for you. You get the laws to say gays can't marry and eventually you'll have it a law for two people of the same gender show affection for each other like guys and galls do.
God gave free will, "Christians" are trying to take it away.
(I can see it now, little lesbian Anne Franks hiding in attics just so they can be together!! It'll be the favorite, yet tragic, story of a sad time in history when tyranny reigned)"
So, how do you condone forcing "Christianity" on people by making laws like this one and others? Do you see some sort of difference between when YOU do it or when you claim HEATHENS do it? (i.e. like you claim with gay marriage, which is WAY different)
What ever hapened to free will??
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Post by cervyy on Sept 10, 2006 4:20:24 GMT -5
Am I to understand then then you "Christians" are in fact trying to take away the free will God gave us?? No response, I'd hate to have to take that as you guys agreeing about your wicked plot.
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Post by oap001 on Sept 11, 2006 18:30:52 GMT -5
This Q has been ignored, and I need an answer. Here's what I originally said in another post "I also have to ask, don't you see that if you don't allow gays to marry you then trying to force your ways on them?? You don't see anything wrong with that?? I thought people had to turn to your Jesus of their own accord. You are in essence, NOT giving them the choice. Because I am sure that this is just a gateway drug for you. You get the laws to say gays can't marry and eventually you'll have it a law for two people of the same gender show affection for each other like guys and galls do. God gave free will, "Christians" are trying to take it away. (I can see it now, little lesbian Anne Franks hiding in attics just so they can be together!! It'll be the favorite, yet tragic, story of a sad time in history when tyranny reigned)" So, how do you condone forcing "Christianity" on people by making laws like this one and others? Do you see some sort of difference between when YOU do it or when you claim HEATHENS do it? (i.e. like you claim with gay marriage, which is WAY different) What ever hapened to free will?? "I do not wish to argue that the doctrines of Jesus, they and they alone, have degraded the world to it's present condition. I take it that Christianity is not only the cause but the symptom of slavery." (Aleister Crowley, The World's Tragedy, p. XXXIX To say that the Bible is repressive is just sin. The sin of unbelief is to the sin of witchcraft. The government has the God given authority to make laws that are moral and Christ honoring. This is what has kept civilization together...the doctrines of Christ. |
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Post by cervyy on Sept 11, 2006 18:36:39 GMT -5
Pach, you still didn't answer my question.
God gave us free will to choose Him, right? That means they can choose to sin, right? Well, how can they choose to NOT follow God if "Christians" are pushing "Christian" laws? (Like banning gay marriage)
It is NOT free will if they cannot choose to live another way.
Try again Pach and how about answering the question?
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Post by oap001 on Sept 11, 2006 19:36:22 GMT -5
Pach, you still didn't answer my question. God gave us free will to choose Him, right? That means they can choose to sin, right? Well, how can they choose to NOT follow God if "Christians" are pushing "Christian" laws? (Like banning gay marriage) It is NOT free will if they cannot choose to live another way. Try again Pach and how about answering the question? Ok, now I understand the question better. Following the law does not make you a Christian. It's free will if you want to get saved or not. "Civil laws" ensure good order...they do not make one Christian. There is a whole argument on....when a society like ours is rejecting God's laws. Then how far should we go in the endeavor to enforce them and such. So actually you have somewhat of a good point. God is active in the affairs of men. He will judge a nation that rejects Him. What about New Orleans?? Did you hear about Grant Storms?? |
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Post by cervyy on Sept 12, 2006 2:37:14 GMT -5
I figured i did word the question weird at first. I alwats do that. Sorry.
Can you provide more information on this argument? How far do you believe "Christians" should go to enforce free will empeding laws?
But Katrina can also be just the bad things that happen to both good and bad people?
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Post by dale on Sept 12, 2006 8:10:20 GMT -5
Cervyy, me jump in briefly here and you and I both know The Patriot will not give you a logical answer, just a bunch of bible quotes. While you are re holding your breath waiting, do me a favor since you are in England. This guy compared me to Crowley.
Ask around downtown and see if a group called The Golden Dawn is still around. If so, maybe I should look into joining them. I think I will look a little silyl dressed like a Pharoah, but hey....
Going form clown to Crowley is quite an advancement.
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Post by cervyy on Sept 12, 2006 10:16:16 GMT -5
I'll chance it again.
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Post by oap001 on Sept 12, 2006 16:40:10 GMT -5
God will judge a person, or a Country in rebellion to Him. Bank on it...Hurricane Katrina struck just a few days before southeran decadence was scheduled to happen.
Grant Storms tried to expose "southeran decadence" and he was banned from carrying a camera there for fear that people would find out how perverse this event was.
No one repented.....the storm struck.
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Post by cervyy on Sept 12, 2006 16:55:19 GMT -5
And they had the oppurtunity to rebel against God. How much longer will you let ppl have the chance??
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Post by oap001 on Sept 12, 2006 20:02:59 GMT -5
It says in the Bible..and I really need to look up this verse. It says, more or less what the people agree upon, so it will be. This is scarry considering that the heart of man is wicked. We'll continue to occupy until He comes chevyy.
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Post by cervyy on Sept 13, 2006 3:10:15 GMT -5
Pach, I make it a point to spell your name right, trying doing the same for me.
So, is that ome crpytic way of saying that if "Christians" can, they WILL make as many Biblical laws as they can legal?
Hey Pach, God left us in charge. Don't question God's judgement.
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Post by oap001 on Sept 13, 2006 6:08:05 GMT -5
No, it's saying that whatever the majority of people want..so it will be. For good or for evil.
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Post by cervyy on Sept 13, 2006 6:31:00 GMT -5
BUT, do you believe you should try and implement biblical laws??
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Post by oap001 on Sept 13, 2006 7:40:26 GMT -5
I do I believe it is a mandate from God. But I believe this should be done in the Democratic process. Unless, we should go to a Kingdom form of Government..that would probably be better that a constitutional republic. As long as we have a Godly king.  |
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Post by cervyy on Sept 13, 2006 10:13:47 GMT -5
So you see nothing wrong with taking away what God gave to us. Our choice, our free will? Explain to me how God says it is okay to take way what God gave?
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Post by oap001 on Sept 13, 2006 10:23:54 GMT -5
So you see nothing wrong with taking away what God gave to us. Our choice, our free will? Explain to me how God says it is okay to take way what God gave? Your mincing your words....to your question. I can't take away your free will to accept Christ or to not accept Him. The government can however make laws based om morality. |
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Post by oap001 on Sept 13, 2006 10:35:57 GMT -5
What about this verse: I am a minister of righteousness and I will not bear the sword in vain.
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Post by cervyy on Sept 13, 2006 10:40:44 GMT -5
True Pach. You can't take away my free will to disobey him in my heart. But is that all the room for disobedience you see fit?
Yes, it is the people in this country who would have a big part in whether or not something was legal or not. But do you see no problem with spearheading a compaign or taking active participation or even voting for or against something that would allow someone to be actively disobedient to God? (does that make sense?)
YOU don't need human laws to force you to do or not do something because you believe in the Bible. (And I know this thing was discussed before but it's related) Would you endorse or vote for a Christian moral law to force those who do NOT believe to follow biblical law??
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Post by oap001 on Sept 13, 2006 11:11:30 GMT -5
True Pach. You can't take away my free will to disobey him in my heart. But is that all the room for disobedience you see fit? Yes, it is the people in this country who would have a big part in whether or not something was legal or not. But do you see no problem with spearheading a compaign or taking active participation or even voting for or against something that would allow someone to be actively disobedient to God? (does that make sense?) YOU don't need human laws to force you to do or not do something because you believe in the Bible. (And I know this thing was discussed before but it's related) Would you endorse or vote for a Christian moral law to force those who do NOT believe to follow biblical law?? Yes, and I would take it a step farther than that. There is a teaching in the Bible about a Godly King who expelled all the sodomites from his Kingdom. I would be in favor to making the laws criminal. All the laws are based on the morality of the Bible. Crowley knew that....your 60 era professors know that. |
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Post by oap001 on Sept 13, 2006 11:13:00 GMT -5
It's God they hate..who following they liken to slavery. Now I ask you..is it in the publics interest to enforce moral laws.
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Post by cervyy on Sept 13, 2006 11:26:16 GMT -5
I believe it is our repsonsiblity to create laws that protect ourselves and our rights to live how WE want and now how, say, you want. That would include enforcing some moral laws, like, killing others is illegal.
That is different then enforcing gays not being able to marry. One is the ceasation of life, and that person's rights (they can'y do much dead) while the other is just two people commiting themselves to each other for the rest of their lives.
So, it IS in the public's interest to enforce moral laws when those laws help protect those people's rights and when those moral laws do NOT infringe on other people's rights. (Worded good enough to be understood?)
And isn't expelling sodomites giving up on those ppl?? He doesn't sound very Godly.
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Post by oap001 on Sept 13, 2006 11:33:59 GMT -5
It all would be based on what you think evil and good is. Do you think God's way is like he is a slave master?
Our rights come from God. If they came from government than government could take them away. But curvyy, God gives no right for same sex marrage or sodomy. It's not a civil right...
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Post by cervyy on Sept 13, 2006 11:48:31 GMT -5
Ah, but Pach not everyone believs that. "Christians" are not the only inhabitants of the U.S. For YOU it is not a right, but a sin. BUT also, you are not about to go get taken in the arse because it is against your religion. That's great, your religion stops you from doing something.
Now my religious beliefs are different then yours! *gasp!* The thing that stops me from taking it in the arse is, I don't fancy that. But if someone wants to get taken up the arse (and are old enough to understand it and it is not some quickie (sex should be more then sex, should be about love)) then they can go do it as far as I'm concerned.
The people made the constitution making sure we would have the rights we were entitled to by whatever God we beieved in (or lack of God). People try to take or keep these rights from people. Like the south did to blacks and like you are doing to gays.
You have the right to believe what you want, but when you start to infringe on other people's rights you have gone to far. You become no better then a slave owner or chauvenist (sp).
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Post by oap001 on Sept 13, 2006 12:04:30 GMT -5
The US Constitution is founded on rights that come from the Christan God. That is what the culture was is all about. Ask Judge Roy More.
Now you say that you believe in certain things. Well don't you leave people out...."what" is th plumb line.
I proved my point over and over again that you think the Christian God is like a slave master.
Can't you hear Satan whispering to you...thru Crowley..Leary..all these types of people. This is the message, "IF IT FEELS GOOD DO IT". "Following the Christian God is like slavery..hey He is responsible for all the worlds wars and bigotry".
Thats the message and you believe it and it's evil. God's way is the right way curvyy.....yes you will have to VOLUNTARY give of your FREE WILL.
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Post by oap001 on Sept 13, 2006 12:14:53 GMT -5
The issue is..are you willing to die to yourself in favor of this Christian God? Would you do that...even if you didn't have all the answers would you voluntarily surrender your will to Him? Would you see yourself as a sinner before this God and would you repent and surrender to Him, His will? Because that is what the Gospel is.
We see the battle for souls down thru history. Satan told Eve that she could be like God and know good from evil. AKA..deside for herself.
It's the same argument over and over again....
I maintain..we can not discern good from evil without God. It's the narrow path. Broad is the way that leads to destruction curvyy.
Be like a little child and surrender.....then you will see.
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Post by oap001 on Sept 13, 2006 12:21:58 GMT -5
He sets before you a blessing and a curse. What will it be....He won't force you...He wants it by your choice.
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Post by cervyy on Sept 13, 2006 12:25:36 GMT -5
Children are helpless and easily persuaded. They know ntohing but what they have been told and can be beated into submitting to some crackpot pedophile. That pedophile is your God and you, Pach.
If the U.S. was mean to be soley one Christianity, then why do we have freedom of religion? Why is it a right to be Hindu, or Islam, or Christian or Catholic??
Yes, i do believe certain things, but leave people out of what?? I'm not trying to take people's rights away coughChristianitycough.
And dude, I've never even heard of Crowley except from your mentioning of him. Are you ASSuming I am intimetely familiar with him?
I am a little confused on your one question so can't answer it:
"The issue is..are you willing to die to yourself in favor of this Christian God? Would you do that...even if you didn't have all the answers would you voluntarily surrender your will to Him? Would you see yourself as a sinner before this God and would you repent and surrender to Him, His will? Because that is what the Gospel is."
My God or your God? 'Cause if it's your God, I think you already know I am not about give into something I canNOT believe in. It's silly for you to even say it if that's what you meant. Either way, still confused.
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Post by cervyy on Sept 13, 2006 12:26:41 GMT -5
He sets before you a blessing and a curse. What will it be....He won't force you...He wants it by your choice. And by creating laws that lead to only one belief, one God, how can people be allowed to choose??  Ya, that makes sense |
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Post by oap001 on Sept 13, 2006 12:32:11 GMT -5
The laws are not made to force someone to make a decision for Christ.
You do it your way.....you'll reap what you sow.
Basically at this point the conversation is pointless. But you understand this....you'll never take over this country without a fight. Even now we are divided along blue and red states. It's a time for war..it's a time for civil war. I have chosen my side.
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Ya, that makes sense