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Post by messengermicah on Apr 5, 2006 14:59:24 GMT -5
hopefulheart said Jesus never condemned homosex.
Jesus is God. The bible is the Word of God. It is the words of Jesus. Leviticus 18, 20, Romans 1, 1 Corinthians 6, and 1 Timothy 1 all condemn homosex as sin. Jesus is God. All scripture is inspired by God (2 Timothy 3:16).
Jesus condemned homosex in Matthew 19:4-6 by upholding God's only pattern for human sexuality. This shows marriage, monogamy, and MALE AND FEMALE.
There are many things Jesus said that are not recorded (John 21:25).
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Post by Alison the WarMonger on Apr 5, 2006 19:43:42 GMT -5
hopefulheart said Jesus never condemned homosex. Jesus is God. The bible is the Word of God. It is the words of Jesus. Leviticus 18, 20, Romans 1, 1 Corinthians 6, and 1 Timothy 1 all condemn homosex as sin. Jesus is God. All scripture is inspired by God (2 Timothy 3:16). Jesus condemned homosex in Matthew 19:4-6 by upholding God's only pattern for human sexuality. This shows marriage, monogamy, and MALE AND FEMALE. There are many things Jesus said that are not recorded (John 21:25). You make it sound so incredibly logical. Whatever conclusions you come to with your statements, the fact is, Jesus did not condemn "homosex". You make it sound very easy, but it's not that simple. Jesus addressed many things, but not "homosex". I wasn't going to say anything, but seriously, homosex? Isn't that a little crude? But then of course, you my be covering your bases. Because if you called it homosexuality I would argue that most (or none actually) of the verses about sexual relations between members of the same sex are really talking about actual homosexuality, just the sexual relations between two people of the same sex, which are two different things. Anyway, whatever, I just think the "homosex" thing is a little immature. What is it about homosexuality that makes you all so incredibly uncomfortable that you have to beat people over the head with your Bibles? You've mentioned protests and such, etc. Now tell me, do you go to liquor stores and preach to alcoholics about God's condemnation of their sins? Do you stand on street corners preaching to prostitutes? My point is, it seems that to a lot of Christians, homosexuality is so incredibly "bad". Why? Is it because you are uncomfortable with the idea of it? There is no indication in the Bible that "homosex" is any worse than any other sin. In fact, aren't all sins supposed to be equal? (I can't quote verses, but cmon you guys know what I'm talking about). So really, why the urgency to cure homosexuality?
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Post by tonyholland on Apr 5, 2006 21:04:02 GMT -5
Not sure how long you have been on the board, but stick around for a bit and I think you will see that the answer to that question is.......Yes!
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Apr 5, 2006 21:06:40 GMT -5
Amen we do! We preach against all sin. It's all gotta go!
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Post by Miles Lewis on Apr 5, 2006 22:34:09 GMT -5
Warmongering Alison, you don't drink to the point of intoxication do you?? You don't pound the shots or guzzle the beers or do booze funnels or do keg stands do you? No Buddumber, Miller Low Life, or Milwaulkie's Worst, right?
-The other guy
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Post by Alison the WarMonger on Apr 6, 2006 1:27:00 GMT -5
Amen we do! We preach against all sin. It's all gotta go! what about the sin in your own life? ah we're back at that log in they eye question. we all sin don't we? or is this a place for the sinless? if so, i think i'm gonna have to be on the next train out. and actually miles, i prefer cheap vodka, thank you. (low budget, you see.) but all in moderation, don't worry. and tony, apparently i haven't been around these parts long enough. maybe i'll change that. you guys wouldn't mind havin me around, now would you? i like to discuss theology...i think i've come to the right place? perhaps. i've got some conservative friends to keep my liberality in check, but maybe i do need some fundamentalist perspective. perhaps... we'll see. by the way, anyone going to be preaching on some sin in atlanta on sunday? maybe i'll see you there.
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Post by messengermicah on Apr 6, 2006 2:34:43 GMT -5
Yes Alison you drunken warmonger you, I do preach against all types of sin. Homosex, drunkeness, fornication, pornography, idolatry, dope smoking, ganster rap, rock and roll, masterbation, pew sitting, etc. ALL OF IT!
I am amused you think that homosex is crude sounding. It is a crude, vile and perverted practice so it deserves a crude name.
No we don't sin. Read the Bible and you will see that Christians are not supposed to sin. Go read some of the pages of threads in this theology section on sinless perfection (you claimed above that you like to discuss theology). You will see that as Christians we are saved from our sin and therefore we do not sin anymore. Now we can call sinners to repent.
Alison the drunken war monger, you said that all sins are equal but you are also biblically illiterate. All sins are equal in the sense that they will send a person to hell, but not all sins are equal in the sense of their wickedness and the punishment they deserve.
Homosex is a sin that God says is an abomination. He hates all sin but He does not call all sins abomination. God hates homosex more than other sins. A picture of Christ and his church is a man and a woman (Ephesians 5). Homosex distorts this picture.
We equally discriminate against all sins but homosexuals seem to love their homosex more than other sinners so they make a bigger deal about it when we preach against it. It is not actually us that make it the bigger deal, it is the homosexuals.
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Post by messengermicah on Apr 6, 2006 2:40:13 GMT -5
Alison the drunken war monger wrote: But then of course, you my be covering your bases. Because if you called it homosexuality I would argue that most (or none actually) of the verses about sexual relations between members of the same sex are really talking about actual homosexuality, just the sexual relations between two people of the same sex, which are two different things.
Only according to the definition of homosexuals who had to change the definition some time ago when it was a crime. In the eyes of God you cannot separate the sinner from the sin or the sin from the sinner. God will cast homosexuals into hell not homosex.
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Post by Alison the WarMonger on Apr 6, 2006 12:12:19 GMT -5
Yes Alison you drunken warmonger you, I do preach against all types of sin. Homosex, drunkeness, fornication, pornography, idolatry, dope smoking, ganster rap, rock and roll, masterbation, pew sitting, etc. ALL OF IT! I am amused you think that homosex is crude sounding. It is a crude, vile and perverted practice so it deserves a crude name. No we don't sin. Read the Bible and you will see that Christians are not supposed to sin. Go read some of the pages of threads in this theology section on sinless perfection (you claimed above that you like to discuss theology). You will see that as Christians we are saved from our sin and therefore we do not sin anymore. Now we can call sinners to repent. Alison the drunken war monger, you said that all sins are equal but you are also biblically illiterate. All sins are equal in the sense that they will send a person to hell, but not all sins are equal in the sense of their wickedness and the punishment they deserve. Homosex is a sin that God says is an abomination. He hates all sin but He does not call all sins abomination. God hates homosex more than other sins. A picture of Christ and his church is a man and a woman (Ephesians 5). Homosex distorts this picture. We equally discriminate against all sins but homosexuals seem to love their homosex more than other sinners so they make a bigger deal about it when we preach against it. It is not actually us that make it the bigger deal, it is the homosexuals. I have several problems with what you've said. Christians are not sinless, first of all. Christians are forgiven for their sins, but please, give me some passage where it says Christians are sinless...? No one is perfect, ever, except God and then of course Jesus was sinless. We are human. I hate to break it to you, but you all are human. So you sin. You may be saved from it by God's grace, but that does not mean you stop sinning completely when you get saved. And what does the Bible say about rock n roll? I sure hope you're kidding. And I may be going out a limb here, but perhaps you hate "homosex" more than any other sin. Is that maybe you've created a God that hates it more than any other sin? I'm not saying you've entirely created your god, but perhaps this aspect of him, that he hates homosex more than any other sin, is something you've made up. I only say that because you have no more evidence than it being called an abomination to back up your statement...and that isn't enough. The conclusions you draw are unfounded. Also, I am not Biblically illiterate just because I can't quote specific verses. If I were, that would be very sad for my professors, since I am in fact a Christianity minor, and sad for me, since I am considering going to some theological seminary later on. I don't think they'd accept the Biblically illiterate....which makes me wonder...maybe they won't accept a drunken warmonger either..oh no! And how on earth do homosexuals make a bigger deal of their sins than alcoholics, or people addicted to drugs, or people who compulsively gamble? That is a pretty ridiculous statement, because I personally know people who do not make that big of a deal out of their "sin". So let me ask you this, since I've established that Christians do continue sinning after they are saved. What about the Christian homosexual? Don't say that doesn't exist, because I know some. And you can condemn them all you want but their faith is just as real as yours. And even if homosexuality is a sin, their sin is no bigger than yours. So either you both go to Hell or you both go to Heaven. Which is it?
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Post by evanschaible on Apr 6, 2006 12:36:32 GMT -5
Alison, Why do you advocate homosexuality? Do you consider it a right? A right to choose whether or not you can sleep with the same sex or not? Okay, then if you claim sexual freedom, then I can sleep with a child of, oh lets say, eight years old and it would be just fine because I can choose my sexuality and I choose pedophilia. Or maybe as Jesse said, I can have sex with an animal, after all it is my right.
Do you now see the rediculousess of your stance? It is sin, your conscience wil tell you it is, but you must first listen to it. You can repent of sin, if not then why did Jesus command us too? It doesnt matter really if Jesus condemned sin or not in exactness of speech, because all things were created through him, He is the eternal son of God, the second person of the trinity, He i sGod with us, and his wird says that no homosexual will enter into the kingdom of God. Why? Becuase it is sin and when lived in, it is iniquity and Jesus says, "depart from me you worker of iniquity." so...Repent and trust in the blood of Jesus and he will forgive you and free you from sin...
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Post by messengermicah on Apr 6, 2006 14:16:57 GMT -5
Alison you drunken war mongering rock and roll freak:
You said show me in the Bible where it says Christians never sin. Ok there are PAGES of threads on this issue that I asked you to look up on this website, which you did not, so even though I am weary of repeating these same scriptures over and over I will because I have such a love for drunken, war mongering, rock and rock loving, homosexual advocates. Here we go. You asked for it you got it.
1 John 3:7-10: Little children let no one deceive you (do not be deceived Alison): He that does righteousness is righteous even as He is righteous. HE THAT COMMITS SIN IS OF THE DEVIL (No such thing as sinning Christians Alison)...WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD DOES NOT COMMIT SIN (remember Alison in John 3 Jesus says unless you are born again you cannot go to heaven) for God's seed remains in him and he cannot sin because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest and the children of the devil.
1 John 5:18: WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD SINS NOT.
Is that clear enough Alison?
What is wrong with rock and roll? Romans 1:32 says "Who knowing the judgment of God that they which commit such things are worthy of death not only do the same but have pleasure in them that do them." Rock and roll glamorizes illicit sex, drug use, and rebellion towards God. These are things that God condemns. Listening to rap music, rock and roll, and watching movies that glorify these things mean we are taking pleasure in things that God hates and condemns. The above verse says if we take pleasure in these things we deserve the judgment of God. Besides everyone knows rock and roll is sinful and wicked.
I think you are judging me now by saying that I hate homosex more than other sins. Actually though I probably do hate it more than many sins just like God hates some sins more than others. I do not know if God hates it more than any other sin but I do know that He calls homosex an abomination but He does not say that about every sin.
I reread my post and I can see where it did sound like I said that God hates homosex more than any other sins, but what I actually said and meant is that God hates homosex more than most other sins which is true. I do not know if he hates sins like pedophilia more than homosex or not. I am not sure. I just know for sure that He really hates the sin of homosex more than other sins.
You are a biblical illiterate. Your last paragraph convinced me that you are even more biblically illiterate than I actually thought. In fact, your ignorance of the bible is quite possibly larger than the whole body of human knowledge. It reaches legendary, epic proportions. You did not establish anything about Christians still sinning. I don't care how many people you have met that say they are Christians and still sin then they are not Christians. You do not measure that by what people say, you measure it by what the bible says. I did establish that above and that is only the tip of the iceberg if you want more biblical proof that Christians do not sin.
Of course you do not think people make a big deal about their sin, because you do not tell them it is wrong and they need to repent of it or be cast into hell for all eternity. It is when you preach against sins that people make a big deal about them. Homosexuals make a bigger deal about their sin than most sinners when they are told that it is wrong, God hates it and they must repent, or face eternity in hell. This is based on years of experience of preaching to all sorts of sinners.
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Post by Alison the WarMonger on Apr 6, 2006 17:42:24 GMT -5
Alison, Why do you advocate homosexuality? Do you consider it a right? A right to choose whether or not you can sleep with the same sex or not? Okay, then if you claim sexual freedom, then I can sleep with a child of, oh lets say, eight years old and it would be just fine because I can choose my sexuality and I choose pedophilia. Or maybe as Jesse said, I can have sex with an animal, after all it is my right. Do you now see the rediculousess of your stance? It is sin, your conscience wil tell you it is, but you must first listen to it. You can repent of sin, if not then why did Jesus command us too? It doesnt matter really if Jesus condemned sin or not in exactness of speech, because all things were created through him, He is the eternal son of God, the second person of the trinity, He i sGod with us, and his wird says that no homosexual will enter into the kingdom of God. Why? Becuase it is sin and when lived in, it is iniquity and Jesus says, "depart from me you worker of iniquity." so...Repent and trust in the blood of Jesus and he will forgive you and free you from sin... No I do not see the ridiculousness of my stance. Consensual sexual relations between two homosexual people can not be compared to the rape of a child.
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Post by evanschaible on Apr 6, 2006 17:49:10 GMT -5
I see that you are blind to truth and blind to conscience, so let us reason together.
Is homosexuality a natural affection? Of course you will say yes, for some who are born that way. So the question is this, are som people born homosexual? NO, how can they be? Prove to me through scinece then, since I presume you are an atheist, or agnostic, that sodomites are born that way.
Secondly, When people walk in darkness they hate the light, so when sodomy is exposed as wrong, they dont like it. I am not afraid of offending anyone, for it is not me which offends but the gospel. You are afraid, the fear of man is deadly, but the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. Wise men dont commit sodomy.
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Post by Josh Parsley on Apr 6, 2006 17:53:30 GMT -5
Is that in the book of Proverbs somewhere?
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Post by evanschaible on Apr 6, 2006 18:00:15 GMT -5
Nope, It is the book of Evan Ch.10 v.1 (kidding, kidding, kidding)
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Post by messengermicah on Apr 6, 2006 19:11:34 GMT -5
If Jesus stating what a proper marriage is in Matthew 19:4-6 is not condemning of homosexuals then why do homosexuals want to make homomarriages legal? Is the fact that the only recognized marriages in most of America as being heterosexual not a statement that homosexual marriage is wrong? Why are homosexuals offended by this if it not condemning of their lifestyles?
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Post by Alison the WarMonger on Apr 6, 2006 19:59:07 GMT -5
If Jesus stating what a proper marriage is in Matthew 19:4-6 is not condemning of homosexuals then why do homosexuals want to make homomarriages legal? Is the fact that the only recognized marriages in most of America as being heterosexual not a statement that homosexual marriage is wrong? Why are homosexuals offended by this if it not condemning of their lifestyles? Was the fact that slavery was once commonly accepted in the South a testament that not owning slaves was wrong? I think not. You guys should know better than me that the standards of this world cannot be used to judge what it right and what is wrong. And I personally don't care about legalizing gay marraige. The only thing I care about is that every individual has the same rights as the next, and the only way to secure equal rights for homosexual couples by allowing them to marry.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Apr 6, 2006 20:04:27 GMT -5
Homosexuals have just as much of a right as straight people do.
I do not have the right to marry another man. I only have the right to marry a women. That is the same right they have. A homosexual should find a nice lesbian and marry her, then they could have a gay marriage.
They don't want equal rights, they want extra rights. But to say something is a "right" is to say something is "righteous".
I am not merely against homosexual marriage, the bible is against homosexuality.
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Post by Alison the WarMonger on Apr 6, 2006 20:27:10 GMT -5
I see that you are blind to truth and blind to conscience, so let us reason together. Is homosexuality a natural affection? Of course you will say yes, for some who are born that way. So the question is this, are som people born homosexual? NO, how can they be? Prove to me through scinece then, since I presume you are an atheist, or agnostic, that sodomites are born that way. Secondly, When people walk in darkness they hate the light, so when sodomy is exposed as wrong, they dont like it. I am not afraid of offending anyone, for it is not me which offends but the gospel. You are afraid, the fear of man is deadly, but the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. Wise men dont commit sodomy. I may be blind to truth, but only truth as you see it. I am not altogether blind to truth, you just believe that I am. And while I do not like to label myself (because labels usually lead people to assume certain things about me) I would most closely fall into the category of an agnostic, actually, an active agnostic. A seeker perhaps. I have already explained where I am spiritually. And let me explain, I am not afraid. Talk about assumptions...I have never given that indication because I am not afraid. I ask the tough questions, I don't mind at all challenging myself. But, none of that means that I know anything about science lol. I am not scientist. So I can't prove scientifically to you that homosexuality is somehting you are born with. I will pose this question to you though: if it is a conscious decision, why would anyone choose it in this society? For attention? That's silly. I do not think it is a choice, and that is the root of our differences.
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Post by Alison the WarMonger on Apr 6, 2006 20:28:14 GMT -5
Homosexuals have just as much of a right as straight people do. I do not have the right to marry another man. I only have the right to marry a women. That is the same right they have. A homosexual should find a nice lesbian and marry her, then they could have a gay marriage. They don't want equal rights, they want extra rights. But to say something is a "right" is to say something is "righteous". I am not merely against homosexual marriage, the bible is against homosexuality. We're talking about the right to marry someone you love. That is not an "extra right".
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Apr 6, 2006 20:37:12 GMT -5
I love all men, but I won't marry them. We are commanded to love everyone, but we are not to marry everyone.
It's not an issue of love, it's an issue of morality.
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Post by Kerrigan on Apr 6, 2006 20:55:37 GMT -5
I'd say that it is an issue of lust, not love. Homosexuals and lesbians can love people of the same sex, but they can't have sex with them. That would be lust and it is something that is very clearly laid out in Scripture as God being against. I have not read this whole thread, but maybe we should define what love is. One thing it definitely is not is feeling...Anybody want to offer up their definition of Love?
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Post by wanderingtrekker on Apr 6, 2006 22:48:28 GMT -5
I'd say that it is an issue of lust, not love. Homosexuals and lesbians can love people of the same sex, but they can't have sex with them. That would be lust and it is something that is very clearly laid out in Scripture as God being against. I have not read this whole thread, but maybe we should define what love is. One thing it definitely is not is feeling...Anybody want to offer up their definition of Love? Well, I don't claim to be a psycologist, but I can quote some. "Love is not primarily a relationship to a specific person; it is an attitude, an orientation of character which determines the relatedness of a person to the world as a whole, not towards one 'object' of love." --Erich Fromm "Love means to commit oneself without gaurantee, to give oneself completely in the hope that our love will produce love in the loved person. Love is an act of faith, and whoever is of little faith is also of little love." --Erich Fromm "Before you can love others, you must first love yourself." --Leo Buscaglia "He who is filled with love is filled with God himself." --Saint Augustine of Hippo "What does love look like? It has the hands to help others. It has the feet to hasten to the poor and needy. It has eyes to see misery and want. It has the ears to hear the sighs and sorrows of men. That is what love looks like." --Saint Augustine of Hippo "I call that mind free, which sets no bounds to its love, which is not imprisoned in itself or in a sect, which recognizes in all human beings the image of God." --William Ellery Channing For me, love is a transforming experience like no other. As we are transformed by the experience of compassion, we transform the world around us by the changing way in which we relate to humanity. Jesus’ message does not leave out concerns regarding social justice. Indeed, living the life of Jesus allows us to leave the system of injustice and join a new system based on the law of God—compassion. Following in the footsteps of Jesus is not about maintaining ritual and avoiding taboos, it is not about obeying laws and codes, it is not about condemnation, and it is not about righteousness. No, the real message of Christianity is not about a strict set of rules at all. It is about love, all about love. Indeed, for Arthur Schopenhauer “compassion is the basis for all morality.” It is the act of compassion—which literally means ‘to suffer with’—that transforms one’s spirit into a more Christ-like entity. Any act of true compassion allows us to see the circumstances, feel the pain, and know the person toward whom the act is directed; this is to truly touch another person, and as Stephan Covey says, “to touch the soul of another human being is to walk on holy ground.” Love is perhaps the single most important emotion humans are capable of. It is the only way in which we can replicate the life of Jesus. Love is unconditional and boundless; it is an act of trust and vulnerability; it means commitment and dependence; it includes empathy and understanding; it does not fit a strict structure, and it cannot be legislated even with the laws set in stone or written in scripture. Love is one of only a few things in the world that is a truly renewable resource, indeed, the more of it you give away, the more of it you have. Jesus hoped to destroy the system of oppression of his time not by eliminating poverty, but by teaching mankind that one will be rich in spirit not by having more possessions than others, but by giving away his possessions. This does not mean that poverty should be ignored, but programs that attempt to reduce poverty without changing the definition of success will only lead to the formation of another system of oppression in the future. According to Gandhi, “poverty is the worst form of violence.” The act of doing violence is destructive to one’s inner being. Acts of compassion heal the soul and help those who, through the gift of compassion, receive the love of Jesus. I should clarify that I am using the words love and compassion interchangably. Simply put, love is when you care more about the needs of someone else than you care about your own needs. Even if you never recieve anything from someone, you are still willing, through love, to give all you have, just to help them. One can love anyone this way, but that is not to say that they should be in a relationship with them. There is a difference between loving your neighbor and being in a relationship with them. Relationships are based on love, but there is much more to them. I hope this clarifies.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Apr 6, 2006 23:03:36 GMT -5
If we really love someone, we won't have homosexual sex with them and thereby send them to hell. Rather, love is promoting the highest well being of all.
If we love everyone, and want everyone to go to heaven, we will call everyone to turn away from their sin and turn to Jesus Christ.
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Post by wanderingtrekker on Apr 6, 2006 23:06:21 GMT -5
Alison you drunken war mongering rock and roll freak: Ok, I'm sorry, but can we stop doing this please? This is supposed to be a discussion thread, a place where intelligent discussion can take place and participants are given the proper respect for their intellectual arguements. Anyone can be juvenile, why don't you guys just rise above the name calling. It doesn't help to change anyone's mind, it only makes them mad. For instance, how does the following juvenile act of mine contribute to this discussion thread? Micah and Jesse sittin' in a tree, S - I - N - N - I - N - G! Come on now, this isn't a grade school playground! Let's be adults!
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Post by Juli on Apr 6, 2006 23:24:51 GMT -5
Alison, it is good that you feel you are seeking...but can I share something with you that really might surprise you? The Bible says that no one seeks God. Not one. (Romans 3:10) Yet, you are undeniably drawn to spiritual things...if you aren't seeking God, it must mean He is seeking YOU out. Does that chill your spine? Knowing that the Creator of the Universe is seeking out you, Alison? We all have a destiny with death one day. I encourage you to pray for the One and Only God to open your heart and mind ot His truth. You will not regret it. I am glad to hear you are not afraid to be challenged. But I must ask - are you prepared to stand before a Holy and Just God? I will be praying for you that God will reveal Himself in a mighty way and prepare your heart - get ready sister! You're in for life's greatest (and only worthwhile) adventure!
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Post by Juli on Apr 6, 2006 23:28:00 GMT -5
Alison you drunken war mongering rock and roll freak: For instance, how does the following juvenile act of mine contribute to this discussion thread? Micah and Jesse sittin' in a tree, S - I - N - N - I - N - G! Come on now, this isn't a grade school playground! Let's be adults! hmm...how long were you waiting to do that one? One folly lies in wait until another is exposed...then they abound. Good thing each man gives an account of himself before God. I'd say if Jesse and Micah want to take their "chances" with a Holy and Just God as their judge, then they probably have a bit more security than most.
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Post by Morluna on Apr 6, 2006 23:35:59 GMT -5
First post guys, nice to meet you all. I just had a couple of questions/clarifications. While I do not focus constantly on a homosexuals perversion, but will talk about other sins, it is important for people to understand that not all sin is equal in it's magnitude. While all sins are equal in the sense that they are all crimes against God and are all violations of His Law, some sins are more depraved then others. Homosexuals, rapests, child-moldestors, cereal killers, are much more depraved then petty theives who steal snicker bars. Jesus said to pilate "he who delivered me unto you has the greater sin". And he also taught that hypocrites will recieve "greater condemnation," that is because there is greater sins. Charles Spurgeon said "Homosexuality is the only sin that rained hell out of heaven." Really? I was pretty sure that Jesus (and all of the prophets in the Bible for that matter) taught that all sin is sin, and that no one sin is greater than another in the eyes of God. I somewhat know Michael Marcavage. He's a very good fella. Repent America is a very brave, bold ministry. I praise God for them and pray they keep winning their lawsuits. What do you guys think about using the word "gay"? I am against it. I don't think we should use the word gay because it's a positive word describing a negative thing. The bible doesn't use the word. I typically only use the word homosexual or sodomite or pervert because the bible uses those words. But the word "gay" should never be used to describe what they do. Thoughts? Does the word "homosexuality" or "homosexual" ever appear in the Bible? I don't recall ever seeing it. I love all men, but I won't marry them. We are commanded to love everyone, but we are not to marry everyone. It's not an issue of love, it's an issue of morality. This comment indicates to me that you view love as only existing in one type. There are many types of love. I love many people in a friendly sense, but there is only one person that I will feel romantic love for. Romantic love is the issue here; and whether what individuals in homosexual relationships feel for one another is real romantic love or not. I'd say that it is an issue of lust, not love. Homosexuals and lesbians can love people of the same sex, but they can't have sex with them. That would be lust and it is something that is very clearly laid out in Scripture as God being against. I have not read this whole thread, but maybe we should define what love is. One thing it definitely is not is feeling...Anybody want to offer up their definition of Love? I would love to (haha, no pun intended.) Love: "An active force, not a passive state" - in the words of Henry David Thoreau. Love is action, not a simple emotion or "feeling." If we're talking about romantic love, we may initially feel attraction or affection to a certain inidividual, but at that point we make a decision to either nurture those feelings and actively step into loving that person, or simply allow the feelings to remain stagnant and not develop any further. Love (in all it's many forms) is an active willingness to seek understanding and respect for one's fellow human beings, and to be there for them in times of need. Love is reaching out and forming enriching relationships based on caring and compassion. Love is not simply saying, "I love you;" it is showing it.
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Post by Kerrigan on Apr 7, 2006 0:05:27 GMT -5
If we really love someone, we won't have homosexual sex with them and thereby send them to hell. Rather, love is promoting the highest well being of all. If we love everyone, and want everyone to go to heaven, we will call everyone to turn away from their sin and turn to Jesus Christ. I would have to agree with Jesse here...The HIGHEST love you can show someone is caring for their well-being above your own, no matter what the cost to yourself. Jesus said it right, "No greater love has any man than this: that he will lay his life down for his friend." And the GREATEST way that you can lay your life down for someone and be their friend (whether they think you are their friend or not) is to tell them the truth about eternity in a loving way. Friends, the simple truth is that if you are living in sin, whether it be homosexuality, lying, stealing, blasphemy, coveting, fornication, drunkenness, whatever, you are on your way to Hell. I say this because I care for where you will spend eternity more then your feelings and more than what you will think of me for saying this to you. I know it is hard to read intentions when these are just words on a website, but this is the Gospel truth. Give up your sin (Repent) and live for Jesus Christ. Put your faith in Him and become Born Again. If you do, He will give you a new heart and new desires. Desires to do what He wants you to do instead of what you want to do. You will be a new creature in Christ, you will hate sin and will not want to live in it, practice it or walk in it any longer. Do this today for you might not have tomorrow. Don't go to Hell! Don't love your own sin and cleave to it so tightly that you go to Hell in the end. Don't love your own sin over your own soul! Don't spit in the face of Jesus Christ and trample his sacrifice under foot by not repenting and putting your faith in Him! I plead with you friends...consider these things and do so TODAY...
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Post by Valentine on Apr 7, 2006 0:05:39 GMT -5
Hey, guys. I have no intention of upsetting, or being inflammatory, or even becoming a long-standing member of this board, but a friend pointed me to this place and I wanted to address something: Is homosexuality a natural affection? Of course you will say yes, for some who are born that way. So the question is this, are som people born homosexual? NO, how can they be? Prove to me through scinece then, since I presume you are an atheist, or agnostic, that sodomites are born that way. Actually, there's a lot of evidence for that. Twin studies indicate a genetic link--identical twins raised apart are more likely to be homosexual than fraternal twins. The correlations that I have offhand are 52% for identical, 22% for fraternal, and 9% for non-twin (Bailey and Pillard). Also, Dr. Simon LeVay found hypothalamic differences between the homosexual and heterosexual male brains in his 1991 study. I'd also point out that the organizations that claim to be able to "cure" homosexuality are seldom successful. Finally, homosexuality isn't a mental disorder. It's been off the DSM since 1973. I'm not going to even address the other points brought up in this thread because it doesn't really matter: believe what you will, but please don't be ignorant about it. The generally accepted, scientific stance on homosexuality is that it is due to a number of factors, some of them nature and some nurture--and while we don't know the exact interaction, "choice" can pretty much be ruled out. From that, feel free to draw any conclusions that you want...for that matter, feel free to draw any conclusions about my motives or beliefs, because I'm not going to state them. I'd think passionate people such as yourselves would surely be seekers of knowledge, and would therefore want to know all the facts before interpreting them. It's certainly the way I try to live my life. Anyway, scientific reasoning was asked for, and while I am most certainly not an expert on the matter (I'm just a student), I provided a bit of what I know. I would be happy to discuss this further if there is interest and the responses can avoid some of the argumentum ad hominem undertones I've seen in this thread so far.
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