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Post by fs on Feb 21, 2009 10:20:19 GMT -5
And we are not slaves to the corporations under capitalism? As for freedoms thrown away that others died for let me ask...how many civil liberties were lost under Bush regime with the blessing of the right wingers~
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Post by Rhema Seeker (Guy) on Feb 21, 2009 10:38:40 GMT -5
And we are not slaves to the corporations under capitalism? As for freedoms thrown away that others died for let me ask...how many civil liberties were lost under Bush regime with the blessing of the right wingers~ FS; yes the people of America are slaves, only because of their SIN OF COVETOUSNESS (idolatry) Colossians 3:5, only. They have learned as the heathen and hoarded up all they can get. They are lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God. They now think with their pocketbooks and no longer with morals. No doubt in my mind that we will become a socialist nation, a ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT to rule this people. We cannot stop Prophecy, but that does not make it right. The Jewish people in the desert whom God had freed from the Socialist Pharaoh, murmured against God and wanted at times to go back into that socialist government and become slaves again because of the cucumbers and garlic (covetousness) they once had. Forgetting what the socialist government did to them in making them slaves and losing out in serving their GOD, the only ONE TRUE GOD.
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Post by Rhema Seeker (Guy) on Feb 21, 2009 11:15:14 GMT -5
FS; also I do not understand your reasoning's to your remarks. How is it that we are slaves to The Big Corporations?
I work for a small corporation. They make big money. That is the reason they can hire someone like me to go in and work 50 hours a week and make a living. THAT IS WHAT YOU CALL FREE ENTERPRISE. I do not have to work for them. You do not have to DEAL with any company you desire not to. That is what CAPITALISM IS. You do not have to get a loan at the BANKS. IT IS YOUR CHOICE IF YOU DO. You do not have to buy GASOLINE. You do not have to shop at WAL-MART. You do not even have to PAY FOR ELECTRICITY. It is your choice to deal with these companies. Just because they are wealthy, does not mean they are wrong. Sure some have stolen. But only in their own company. They did not steal from you. You blame the banks. Don't deal with them. You don't have to borrow money and pay high interest.
You see it all goes back to what I said earlier. It is the COVETOUSNESS (idolatry) of the people that has caused them to be in slavery. NOT CORPORATE AMERICA.
Please be specific so I can understand what you mean about your views. I must be missing something. please BE SPECIFIC ABOUT WHAT LIBERTIES DID WE LOSE.
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Post by fs on Feb 21, 2009 11:32:23 GMT -5
Two topics thrown into one by mistake.
What Civil Libertines have we lost. Try travelogue by air. The no fly list, red flagging travelers who should not be flagged, the Patriot Act, government spying on private emails and phone conversations, the government taping war protectors, the broadened and overabundant powers of police, water boarding, detainment of US citizens, I can go on and on.
Not related to the Obama/Socialist world you and Jessee see coming, but the more and more coming out on the Bush regime, it is obvious the lot of them should be tried as war criminals themselves.
I do not fear any longer what this country may become under Obama (and I did NOT support him at first). I fear what it already has become under eight years of Bush
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Post by Rhema Seeker (Guy) on Feb 21, 2009 11:50:33 GMT -5
Two topics thrown into one by mistake. What Civil Libertines have we lost. Try travelogue by air. The no fly list, red flagging travelers who should not be flagged, the Patriot Act, government spying on private emails and phone conversations, the government taping war protectors, the broadened and overabundant powers of police, water boarding, detainment of US citizens, I can go on and on. Not related to the Obama/Socialist world you and Jessee see coming, but the more and more coming out on the Bush regime, it is obvious the lot of them should be tried as war criminals themselves. I do not fear any longer what this country may become under Obama (and I did NOT support him at first). I fear what it already has become under eight years of Bush It is not the fault of Bush that we have this. IT IS THE FAULT OF TERRORIST. Come on FS, you know better than this. It tickles me that when we went to war right after 911, every person was behind Bush decision. EVEN OBAMA . But now because of the economy, lets blame it on Bush. Did Bush cause all the HURRICANES this nation had in the last few years. How about the fires, floods, freezing weather, earthquakes all the natural disasters that COST THIS NATION MONEY. It didn't matter who was in office; GOD was and is in control of it all. Obama can't make it better, he is fighting against GOD. This nation and WORLD is at its END. THE SINS OF THIS PEOPLE HAVE PROVOKED GOD UNTO ANGER.
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Post by fs on Feb 21, 2009 14:49:54 GMT -5
I give up. Believe what you want.
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Post by biblegeek on Feb 21, 2009 18:07:52 GMT -5
Nice job ignoring my post, geek. Might want to read it now. As I said above, you are arguing with a banned account. While the person can come back if they wish it, you look rather foolish in the meantime and set yourself up for others to snipe at you. I have done just that below, fair warning. Why am I responding to a post aimed at her? Several reasons. First off, you took the time to write all that, you deserve a response. Never mind that your post is akin to beating a defenseless man. Second, you are so incredibly annoying and arrogant that I can't help it. History is in doubt here. Sales, have nothing to do with it. Neither do copies of the book that are really old. (how old are these, by the way?) They are as relevant as me quoting Elvis's record sales and number of movies in an attempt to prove he is the son of god. A lot of people believing in something can be wrong. There are a bunch of believers in other religions, and you think they're all wrong, so the reverse can be applied here. History is NOT in doubt. Josephus is only 1 of several historians that verify the existence of a man named Jesus that died on a cross. But you won't believe that because your heart is hardened and you don't want to believe the truth. Do you believe that Iliad was preserved?Addressed in the post above. Lying is frowned upon in the bible, yes? You know good and well you're not going to follow through, because you are certain she won't. Yes, lying is wrong. Good thing I'm not a liar. Are you? If you can provide evidence of your brain without using technology, x-rays, cat-scans, history (etc) then I'll give you evidence of God. The thing is, genius, that you can't. You have to use outside resources to prove your point, and so do I. Mainly, history, archeology, and intelligent design. I can't think of a way to express my extreme annoyance at your actions and intentions without resorting to speech I would rather not make in polite company. You do not make a contract if you have no intention on fulfilling it, no matter how remote the possibility of you needing to. Know that you have none of my respect for this. sigh.... I was trying to make a point.... see above explanation (I doubt you'll comprehend, though, because you are probably one of those liberal democrats. If you aren't, I apologize in advance)You have people that will repent immediately, I'm one, but the arrogance in this common easily thrown around excuse makes me wonder why you are worth saving. I know none who could deny a face to face meeting with God. there were plenty that didn't want anything to do with Jesus when he was on the earth. Jesus did miracles in front of his disciples and they still doubted him. Why would you be any different?You already broke the lying part, which, funnily enough, you're ranking with murder. Let me get this... Can you not do good without believing in Jesus? If I do not murder, lie, steal, covet, etc, etc, etc...? I've already explained the lying part. Regarding whether or not a sinner does good.... sometimes. But, overall, comparing all sinners to all saints, the saints want to obey God and don't sin. The sinners don't care if they hurt God and are selfish and, therefore, sin all they want. Hands down, Christians leave the world a better place than sinners. I have issues with the idea of a just being giving immortal punishments for mortal transgressions, but let's not get to that yet. True, it's a big deal if you're right. But, then again, it's also a big deal if the Catholics or Muslims or whatever are right. With no solid proof of any of the gods being real, you can't really make a good decision. A spiritual lottery, if you will. Do you have solid proof that the earth was a result of a big-bang? No. Why? Because you haven't seen it and it's unprovable. Yet, morons have no problem accepting that an intelligently designed universe is a result of chance. That takes allot of faith. I give you credit, sinner, for having more faith than I do if you believe that. In fact, I have some ocean front property in Oklahoma I'd like to sell you.... Anyhow, the evidence is there for you to examine. But you'd rather believe in evolution which doesn't have any accountability for your actions. Inherently, everyone knows sin is wrong... so do you. You would rather have the convenience of not believing there is a creator. Just because you don't believe doesn't make it untrue. You cannot prove a negative. I am Abraham Lincoln reincarnated. Prove otherwise. As to the universe being chance, or just simply being without help, why not? I see the universe, I do not see God. I know the universe exists, earth, my home, my friends. God I have not seen. Yes I can prove a negative. How do you think Einstein created the light bulb? By finding everything under the sun that doesn't work. I can prove to you that I cannot compete with Labron James in a game of 21... that's a negative. I can prove to you that -1 + -1 = -2. Negatives can be proven. I could prove rather easily that you aren't Abe Lincoln... not a good illustration. And, just because you haven't seen someone doesn't mean they don't exist. Just because you have never seen your brain doesn't mean is doesn't exist... or not. That is assuming this is all a design. Something based, not on fact, but your inability to believe that this is all there is. Likewise, that is assuming that this is NOT a design. Something based, not on fact, but your inability to not believe that this is all there is.... you're asking me to believe in an unproven accident. I'm asking you to believe in a historical, archeologically proven creator. Yours takes much more faith than mine because you have NO evidence whatsoever. And the bible, of course. It says there's more, promises you awesomeness later, and because you want that and believe it is secure, you have no reason to question. Questioning things is good, it leads to discovery. yes it does! Cool thing with that is, you can go find the guy who made the baseball and basketball, if they're still alive. You also may remember a time before they existed, so you know that it was created, instead of always being there. Earth, on the other hand, has existed far longer than any of us have lived. You cannot go find god and ask why he made the oceans salty. (if you can, I'd appreciate his address, as I have several questions for him.) The fact that you cannot find him leads me at least to question if he exists or is just a creation of men. If you had a globe that was from the 14th century, would you believe that it had a designer? But you wouldn't be able to find the guy who made it. The earth is far more complex than a globe and, hence, has to have a designer. Just because you don't know the designer doesn't make it without a designer. Everything came from something... including earth. Really big fractions, but I get the idea. Gravity does not work that way. You are thinking centrifugal force, and even that does not work that way. Paying attention in science class makes you look smarter in arguments (or at least less ignorant). I concede... I didn't pay much attention in science. ;D But, the point still stands... if the earth turned faster or slower, it would definitely effect everything on the earth.You're thinking meteors. They're mostly small. Like, small enough to not be much danger for anything. Just look at the moon, It's still in one piece. The big planet killing meteors? Even with the atmosphere we're dead when one of those shows up. Thankfully they're rare enough and space is really big so it's easy for one to miss. The meteor menace is a joke. I CAN. EVERYTHING YOU SEE? IT JUST IS. AND IT IS UNTIL PROVEN OTHERWISE. IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO CONVINCE ME THAT IT IS NOT JUST AS I SEE IT, THEN PLEASE PRAY FOR GOD TO COME WITH ME TO BURGER KING. I HAVE SOME GIFT CARDS, YOU SEE, AND AM TOTALLY WILLING TO PAY FOR HIS HEAVENLY LUNCH. O.o That I did not know. Back it up. Proof please. Charles Darwin - "The impossibility of conceiving that this grand and wondrous universe, with our conscious selves, arose through chance, seems to me the chief argument for the existence of God... I am aware that if we admit a first cause, the mind still craves to know whence it came, and how it arose." The Life and Letters of Charles Darwin (New York: D. Appleton & Co., 1905), 276. I have many more quotes from Pasteur, Newton, etc that might help. Let me know if you are sincerely interested. And this is where I cannot speak for Burning. I'll speak for myself, though. You're in the business of saving souls? Then proof is your burden. You want people to believe, then the best way is to show them. It's hard to disbelieve the eyes. You aren't forced to be on this board. You're here for a reason. Probably because you aren't sure about what you believe. I'm not in the business of saving souls. I'm in the business of preaching the gospel. Only Jesus can save your soul. You, apparently, already believe in something so you have faith. You have blind faith on a theory that the designer (Darwin) admits is shaky at best. Nobody can prove anything to you because your heart isn't ready. When you're ready, you'll study for yourself and prove this to yourself once and for all. Quit putting the responsibility of your eternal destination on everyone else but yourself. Act like a man and take responsibility for your life. You will die some day... hopefully not too soon... 100%, you will die. You need to get your eternal affairs in order...
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Post by Melmoth on Feb 21, 2009 19:42:29 GMT -5
History is in doubt. I am doubting it. How many of your supporting historians saw Jesus' miracles? Sincerely interested here. The Illiad is mostly fiction. It may have had some truth in it, but it has gods running around the battlefield and other things you'd deny. What does the Illiad have to do with anything?
But I can prove by brain exists. I can actually go in for surgery and have holes cut into my skull for you to see. I don't have the money to do such a thing, but that is of little importance. I can prove it. You have God, Jesus, Angels, whatever divine being you can call come have lunch with me and I'll accept that as proof.
I'm not bashing on your political party or intelligence. I'd appericiate it if you'd give me the same courtesy.
Because I say I'm different.
I think there's a few crusades and inquisitions that say Christianity in general hasn't been as good as you believe. Not that it's been evil, but it has not been without stain. We're not going to get anywhere on this point, though.
Several things here:
Big Bang: It is not something I saw, and I'm willing to change my mind on it if something else comes up that's a more feasible idea. We don't know that it was intelligent design, we do not know that it was a big bang. The idea of nothing exploding hurts my head, as does some guy appearing out of nothing and hand making everything. Brings up the question of what made God.
Your evidence is a book. And I doubt that book. I also equally doubt the other religion's books and explanations, so I'm consistent at least.
Evolution: If something better comes up...
I live my life as I believe I should. I hurt none, be generous when I can, and generally want peace and goodwill. No problems here. I don't believe, and while that doesn't make it untrue, it also doesn't make other religions untrue as well.
*facepalm*
Electricity was not created. Franklin is the guy who gets credit for it's discovery, last time I checked. Einstein was way later and had nothing to do with it. That bit about everything else under the sun? That was Edison. Making light bulbs. And continually failing until one method works. That is not proving a negative.
Maybe you suck at 21. I'll give you that.
-1 + -1 = -2 You did not pay attention in math, either.
I am the spirit of Abe Lincoln, reborn into a new body. Stop talking and prove otherwise.
Because I cannot prove that something does not exist, I must be able to prove that something does exist. Otherwise, it is assumed not to exist, regardless of the fact that it may exist. Because nobody has ever seen a dragon, we must assume that it does not exist.
Geek... I'm not asking you to believe a thing. I'm asking you to show me proof of your belief. I don't care about evolution or the big bang. That stuff was so long ago that it doesn't matter. I do not care how the world was made. I am here to question your beliefs on the off chance that I may get proof. Proof being something more solid than a 2000 year old book.
Everything came from something. And I am not saying Earth was not designed. I am saying I have no proof Earth was designed, or by who.
Effect, yes. Everything has an effect. A catastrophic effect is rarer. If Earth did not rotate, there would still be livable areas between the darkness and light. The things that live here would just be tougher, in my opinion.
...
He states that you cannot believe that this came to be without a maker, and says that we want to know how we were made, along with everything. This neither supports or denies God in my view.
That's the thing with science. Everything is ready to change on a moment's notice as new evidence is discovered. If there is a god, I want to know. But I want to be sure another god is not the right one as well.
Correct, you are preaching, but why do you preach? Cause the bible says so? The idea is to get conversions.
Addressed above.
I am getting my affairs in order. That is why I am here. To either continue in disbelief of your god, or to be shown that he is the one. I can study the books of all religions until the day I die, but without seeing a god, not one will be more valid than the others. Each has their book, their stories, and their explanation for how everything came to be.
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Post by biblegeek on Feb 22, 2009 0:04:53 GMT -5
Wow... you're really hardened to the gospel. What happened? Why are you so bitter against God? Did somebody in the church hurt you? Let's cut to the chase... why are you so bitter towards the gospel? - 1 + -1 = -2... isn't that what it says??? I was typing faster than I was thinking.... however, you proved my point for me... a negative is provable. - once again... that's what it says above... ;D you made my point by pointing out the Einstein created the light bulb by proving all the negatives were ineffective. Not sure why I typed electricity but I did... Perhaps typing faster than I'm thinking? Anyhow, I've proven that I'm not perfect, that's for sure. But I did accept Jesus as my savior in 1986 and my life hasn't been the same since. He totally changed my heart. The things that I used to do I don't want to do any more. I have freedom of guilt and shame. I don't have to worry about DUI's, VD's, or unwanted pregnancies. I about died 3 1/2 years ago from cancer and I'm happy to say that before the surgeon removed a softball sized tumor from next to my heart, I had no fear of death.... nor do I now. I know where I'm going when I die. I haven't seen God and I don't have to see him. I haven't seen air and I use it all the time. I haven't seen love and I feel it every second of the day since I've been saved. Prove love... can you? You can prove what love does. You can prove it by actions. But in itself, you can't prove it any more than I can show you God. The Bible says God is love. I leave you with a few scriptures. It's evident that this back-and-forth banter isn't fruitful. Anything and everything I throw at you won't effect you because your heart isn't ready. Someone once said, "when the student is ready the teacher will appear." When you're ready, you'll study this for yourself diligently. Check out www.markcahill.org/. You may find this interesting. He used to be an atheist. I've never been one, even when I was a sinner. But feel free to email Mark... he's love to chat with you. 1Co 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 1Co 1:24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. 1Co 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 1Co 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 1Co 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 1Co 1:28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to naught things that are: 1Co 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence. Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath showed it unto them. Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
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Post by tonyholland on Feb 22, 2009 18:23:04 GMT -5
Wow Jesse, after reading your comments here, either you are just being stubborn or have a remarkable lack of compassion. You blessed to have supporters that would help you know with these type of situations, but I have to wonder how quickly you would change your mind about these programs if your support were to dry up and you had a need.
Something you have to keep in mind is that a lot of these people used to work and paid taxes for these programs. They should be avalaible when they are needed.
I also think this approach of hospitals putting people on a payment plan that they can afford is pretty naive. I guess you haven't heard of the thousands of life saving operations that are not performed every year because the patients cant afford it. Hospitals will perform emergency services to anyone who needs them, but that is about it.
I'm also a little suprised that you agree that taxpayer money should go to police, fire fighters and the Military. If somone is breaking into your house, why should my taxpayer money go to sending a police officer to your home to prevent it. It's not my fault that you decided to live in a bad neighborhood. If your house catches fire, why should my taxpayer money go to send firefighters to put it out? It's not my fault that you were irresponsible and allowed your house to catch fire. Perhaps the Military should be homeland defense only...and to take another step, if someone from another company is trying to take over your land and home....shouldn't you defend it yourself? Maybe those supporters can grab some guns and come help you out rather than my taxpayer money being spent to defend your home? Now these examples are silly, of course we need firefighters, police and the military, just as much as we need social programs to help those who cant help themselves.
I'm curious.....I know your ministry is full time. Do you pay income taxes? I'm not sure exactly how that works, but I am curious. If not.....why would any of this bother you anyway?
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Post by fs on Feb 23, 2009 9:30:33 GMT -5
Amen.
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Post by fs on Feb 24, 2009 16:41:36 GMT -5
On the other hand, while I think Jesse is clueless ion the health care issue, in fairness to him, his piece I just read in the theology section on Sound Doctrine is splendid. A blessing as I was at the point of telling everyone on the board to take a hike. This piece spoke to me and will speak to others if they read it. I am going to go over it more soon.
This writing on the other thread is something everyone needs to read. Had I seen this earlier it would have given me a far better impression if Jesse and his doctrine.
The right place at the right time I guess.
Amen.
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