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Post by Kerrigan on Apr 5, 2008 11:22:08 GMT -5
What is the age of accountability and how is it defined in scripture.(verses please) Thank you. I move for the Church to change it's terms on this! Instead of calling it an AGE of accountability, let's call it more accurately a STATE of accountability. Not only is it apparent that individual children begin to understand good and evil at different times in their development, but some people who grow to adult age, never reach the ability to be held morally accountable (mentally handicapped). I move to call it a "STATE of accountability". Edited to add this resource for your review: www.gospeltruth.net/OS100bibleverses.htmGood points Joel. I think it would be good to call it State of Knowledge or Understanding...
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Post by Kerrigan on Apr 5, 2008 10:46:14 GMT -5
Do you read the Bible? Im sure that you do, so since you do, you should recognise the verses that are in my paragraph. That's just is, I DO read my Bible. That is why I question just about everything you say. My question is the same for you. Do YOU read your Bible? Or even a better question, do you STUDY your Bible. If you do, then please provide some Scriptures to back up what you have said, because I find it no where in Scripture...
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Post by Kerrigan on Apr 4, 2008 21:40:10 GMT -5
john316yes...will we ever see some Scripture to back up the claims you make? People have offered Scripture to refute the things you have said COUNTLESS times. If you would post some Scripture that goes along with what you say, you might actually be believable. Until then, though, what you post is just your opinion and no offense, but that is worthless...God's Word and Truth is ALL that matters...
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Post by Kerrigan on Apr 3, 2008 21:08:51 GMT -5
I have no problem letting the Bible speak for itself and I have no problem reading the passages you have quoted Abraham. What I have a problem with is the Calvinistic interpretation of those verses. I would be willing to say that most of the "great" theologians, writers and pastors of the past, etc. are wrong. I have no problem with that. I don't think it is prideful or arrogant, I just think that it is true. At one point in time, the majority of the "church" was the Roman Catholic Church. Then there was a reformation. Should they not have stood up and come against the indulgences, etc. just because a majority of the "great" theologians, writers and pastors of the past, etc. said something different then them? What about when most people left Jesus and the disciples? What about when most of the "great" Jewish teachers of those days didn't believe that Jesus was the Messiah. In fact, out of all the "great" Jewish teachers of that day (i.e. the Pharisees), we only know of two that believed that Jesus was the Messiah: Nicodemus and Joseph of Aramithea (spelling?). Maybe all of the Jewish people looked to them and thought, "they can't ALL be wrong" while little old Nicodemus, Joseph, some fishermen, a tax collector, a zealot, etc. are all right? I'm not saying that is what you are saying Derek, but if it is, history is definitely against that way of thinking...
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Post by Kerrigan on Apr 3, 2008 12:28:48 GMT -5
"Hyper Calvinism" is just Calvinism taken to its natural ends. It should really be called "Consistent Calvinism", not "Hyper Calvinism." They're both wrong and both unBiblical either way...
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Post by Kerrigan on Apr 2, 2008 10:42:43 GMT -5
That's good stuff Steve. Thanks for sharing. The article that I have been reading (see post titled "Calvinism Critiqued") exposes even more confusion when it comes to Calvinism. I didn't think it could get any worse, but it is!
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Post by Kerrigan on Apr 3, 2008 14:36:55 GMT -5
I already have this verse list saved in my computer. I once used a lot of these scriptures to try to disprove God's Sovereign Grace. Thank you for sending me the list. I know that you desire good for me. That was kind of funny the way you made a joke out of what I said with the scare crow and the fire and the boat. However, I'm not into joking around about serious matters and I don't desire to joke around with you. Please stop with the jokes. Please understand, I don't want this to turn into one of those "name calling/ make a fool out of each other in front of every one" threads. So, I'm done here. God bless you! -Abraham I don't "disprove God's Sovereign Grace" Abraham. I have a different definition of Sovereignty and Grace and I propose that mine is Biblical. Brother, this was some innocent, light-hearted fun until you turned it into this. The scare crow, fire and boat were not posted in order to make fun. They were posted in order to show the foolishness of the straw man arguments brought against my position. You obviously don't know what I believe because you just keep straw manning it to death. Glad you are done with this thread. I really don't have time to sit here and discuss these things all day...especially when I am just refuting straw men arguments all day. I pray that God reveals His Truth to you AND that you will obey it...
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Post by Kerrigan on Apr 3, 2008 14:15:34 GMT -5
As God has ordained the end, he has also ordained the means. I God saves men from lies through the intercessions from His spirit and the proclamation of His word by His Spirit. I have spoken to you about this before. Are you still dull of hearing? I heart still hardened to What God declares plainly in Isaiah, John, Romans, Ephesians, and all throughout the Bible. If I am, you are insulting God. This is the way God made me. I can't change myself! God has to do it! Are you dull of hearing? Have you not read the plain teaching of the WHOLE BIBLE. Why don't you start with these verses: T-Total Depravity/Total Inability/Original Sin Scriptures- Genesis 6:5; Genesis 8:21; Deuteronomy 30:19; Joshua 24:15; Job 31:18; Psalm 22:6, 10; Psalm 51:5, 7-8; Psalm 58:3; Isaiah 7:15-16; Isaiah 55:6-7; Isaiah 64:6; Jeremiah 3:25; Ezekiel 18; Joel 2:19; Matthew 3:7; Matthew 7:11; Matthew 18:3; Matthew 19:13-15; Matthew 22:2-10; Matthew 22:18; Matthew 23:13-17, 19, 23-29, 33; Mark 4:12; Mark 6:6; Luke 1:15; John 9:39-41; John 12:32; John 17:3; Acts 7:51-52; Acts 13:9-10; Acts 17:26-27, 30-31; Romans 1:3; Romans 2:14; Romans 3:9-18; Romans 5:12-21; Romans 6:16; Romans 7:9, 14; Romans 9:11; 1 Corinthians 3:1; 1 Corinthians 15:21-22; Galatians 2:14-15; Ephesians 2:1-3; Colossians 2:13; Hebrews 2:14, 17-18; Hebrews 4:15; James 4:8-10; 1 John 4:2-3; 2 John 7 U-Unconditional Election Scriptures- Deuteronomy 10:17; Job 34:19; Ezekiel 18:23, 32; Ezekiel 33:11; Matthew 22:2-10; Matthew 23:37; Luke 15:7, 10; John 6:44-46; Acts 2:11; Acts 2:39; Acts 10:34; Romans 2:5-11; Galatians 2:6; Ephesians 1:3-12; Ephesians 6:7-9; 1 Timothy 2:1,3-4; Hebrews 5:9; James 2:9; James 3:17; 1 Peter 1:17; 2 Peter 3:9; L-Limited Atonement Scriptures- Isaiah 53:5-6; John 1:29; John 3:16-17; Romans 5:6; 2 Corinthians 5:14-15; 1 Thessalonians 2:14-15; 1 Timothy 2:5-6; 1 Timothy 4:10; Hebrews 2:9; Hebrews 7:27; Hebrews 9:12; Hebrews 10:10; Titus 2:11; 2 Peter 2:1; 1 John 2:2; 1 John 4:14 I-Irresistible Grace Scriptures- Genesis 4:6-7; Genesis 6:3; Matthew 22:2-10; Matthew 23:37; John 1:9; John 6:37, 44-46, 65; John 12:32; John 16:7-11; Acts 2:37; Acts 7:51, 54, 57; Acts 11:18; Acts 13:46, 48; Acts 26:18-20; Ephesians 2:1, 5; Philippians 1:29; Philippians 2:12-13; 2 Timothy 2:25-26; Hebrews 2:3; Revelation 22:17 P-Perseverance of the Saints Scriptures- Psalm 9:10; Ezekiel 3:20-21; Ezekiel 18:18-31; Ezekiel 33:12-20; Matthew 6:14-15; Matthew 10:22; Matthew 24:13; Matthew 24:48-51; Matthew 25:1-13; Mark 4:16-19; Mark 13:13; John 6:66; Acts 1:24-25; Acts 11:23; Acts 13:43; Acts 14:22; Romans 11:20-23; 1 Corinthians 3:16-17; 1 Corinthians 9:27; 1 Corinthians 10:5-13; 1 Corinthians 15:1-2; Galatians 5:4-9; Galatians 6:7-9; Colossians 1:21-23; 1 Thessalonians 3:5,8; 1 Thessalonians 4:8; 2 Thessalonians 2:3; 1 Timothy 1:5,6; 1 Timothy 1:18-20; 1 Timothy 4:1; 1 Timothy 4:16; 1 Timothy 5:15; 2 Timothy 1:12, 14-15; 2 Timothy 2:3-5, 12, 17-18; 2 Timothy 4:9-10; Hebrews 2:1; Hebrews 3:6, 8-15, 18-19; Hebrews 4:1, 11, 14; Hebrews 6:1, 8, 11-12, 15; Hebrews 10:23, 26-31, 35-39; Hebrews 12:14-15, 25; James 1:13-15; James 5:19-20; 2 Peter 1:9; 2 Peter 2:20-22; 2 Peter 3:17; Revelation 2:4-7, 10-11, 17, 25-26; Revelation 3:2-5, 10-12, 16, 19, 20
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Post by Kerrigan on Apr 3, 2008 14:00:04 GMT -5
Welcome Logic! Yeah, I know what you mean about the funeral brother...
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Post by Kerrigan on Apr 3, 2008 13:55:09 GMT -5
I didn't lie about you brother. I just used the wrong word. Still you shouldn't be grieved at God's plan either! Why would anyone be grieved at God's will?! That doesn't make any sense! Amen, glad you are at peace brother. Why would you pray though? Do you assume that the future is full of open possibilities? Hasn't God already determined whether I will become a Calvinist or not? if so, your prayers are worthless brother. Oh, the FOLLY of believing in a Calvinist God! No one said that any of us deserve it. That's not the point. The point is that God DOESN'T play favorites! He doesn't choose to reveal Himself to some and withhold Himself from others. He loves ALL of His creation EQUALLY! That true. But the question is who does He give Grace to? Those who CHOOSE to respond to His drawing and CHOOSE to respond to the convicting power of the Holy Spirit. Why would you be grieved at my heart? Didn't God make me this way or cause me to be this way? I can't control what I do! Isn't that your view of God's Sovereignty? Call it "mad", call it "grieved", you are still fighting God's Will. You have no reason to have any kind of negative emotion towards anything Abraham. The God of Calvinism causes everything and therefore anytime you are angry or grieved, you are fighting against God! Amen! The question then becomes, "Who are the elect?" Your answer and my answer are polar opposites. You say that God arbitrarily picks and chooses, I say God influences man to make the right choice, but leaves it up to man whether he wants to be a part of the elect or not. Can you say STRAW MAN?! Who has exalted free will? It is a gift from God. I exalt Almighty God who was loving enough to give me free will. You're right, it's all about Him! But are you worshiping Him freely or is He making you worship Him? I CHOOSE to abide in Christ, not that I may bring Glory to myself, but that Christ may receive ALL THE GLORY! I am just an unprofitable servant doing my Master's Bidding. Who are you to come against the Elect of God? Am I so foolish to mock a false God? I don't think so. I think God takes pleasure in the mocking of idols. See straw man above. GOD has Sovereignly decreed to give you free will. Is God powerful enough to choose to do so? I pray because I know God hears my prayers and there is a possibility that God will answer my prayers. Prayers to a Calvinist God mean nothing. God has already chosen what to do. I pray for people who I think will listen to God when He attempts to influence them into truth. I think you are one of them Abraham... Ditto brother. What do you know? Another Straw man! Someone call the fire department! We might have a forest fire here in a minute! God CAN override someone's free will if He wants, but He rarely ever does so...especially when it comes to salvation. But, YES, you do determine how you respond to Truth...whether in submission to it or rejection of it... Well, at least my God (the one of the Bible) hears my prayers. At least my God isn't frozen in "timelessness." Ok, we will need the Coast Guard to come in and help now! STRAW MAN! STRAW MAN! As I said, YES, you determine if you respond to truth in the right way or not. BUT, God determines how much influence He will exert over you with the truth. I have "no fear or reverence towards God" because I did an April Fool's joke? That's just ridiculous. When it comes to my heart, you know NOTHING about me Abraham. You are making a POOR JUDGMENT of someone brother and all over a simply JOKE. You need to lighten up. More importantly, you need to repent. Go read Matthew 7, because you have broken it. You tell me that I have no reverence or fear towards God and then you do the very thing you have accused me of. That's called hypocrisy. Take the log out of your own eye! Maybe you aren't one of the elect brother. Better sit around and see if God makes you repent. You never know, your hypocrisy might show that you were never saved in the first place
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Post by Kerrigan on Apr 3, 2008 7:13:02 GMT -5
Amen Jesse! Why would a Calvinist ever be mad at me for my Theology...or EVEN IF I mocked Calvinism. Since God Sovereignly predestines and controls everything, I am just a puppet in His hands doing His will. So, if you are a Calvinist and you got mad or upset at this post, then you are mad at God, not me! In fact, from your theological perspective, God is controlling you as well, so really God is mad at Himself. This is all just a joke and God is having lots of fun. So you are getting mad at the very thing that God is doing through us. Confused? Yeah, I know, Calvinism is confusing and we all know that God isn't the author of confusion...
In all reality, this was made to be a joke...that's all. Nothing more, nothing less. I personally thought it was really funny that I was able to fool Jesse...at least for a few minutes. I think that maybe Abraham got mad because I mentioned his name in the second thread. As I told Abraham in my PM to him, I didn't use his name as a way to personally mock or insult him or to make fun of his defense of Calvinism on this message board. He is simply the first person that came to mind because of all the posting he has done recently.
Abraham, I totally disagree with your definition of favoritism. Favoritism doesn't require someone loving something more about someone over someone else. In Calvinism, where God arbitrarily picks some people for Heaven and damns some people to Hell is favoritism at it's WORST! How can you be so blind to this fact brother!? Calvinism is the best at making something that is bad look good. They'll say things like "it was God's conquering Grace" and "God is not mad with his own plan", etc. Abraham, you act like these people who were damned to Hell deserve it for being born that way...for God making them that way...I mean it's not like they chose to sin or chose to be the way they are. Calvinism makes God out to be a sinner, because God says that playing favoritism is a sin!
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Post by Kerrigan on Apr 1, 2008 21:55:22 GMT -5
Too bad we're the ONLY ONES on the Fishing Fools message board right now...
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Post by Kerrigan on Apr 1, 2008 21:52:11 GMT -5
Maybe Jesse should do it. That would be even funnier! ;D
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Post by Kerrigan on Apr 1, 2008 21:47:36 GMT -5
It is and no one has posted yet! No, it's still locked up brother...
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Post by Kerrigan on Apr 1, 2008 21:45:29 GMT -5
The doctrine section is still locked up...could post it in the Catch All section... ;D
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Post by Kerrigan on Apr 1, 2008 21:43:54 GMT -5
I have to get over to fishin fools they will love this post ;D John, you should try this over there...or maybe I will. The Doctrine section should be unlocked by now, right?
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Post by Kerrigan on Apr 1, 2008 21:42:42 GMT -5
That's it. Revk is banned, and I'm deleting all of his posts, especially this one. Hahahaha...I really wanted some Calvinists to see it before I revealed I was joking...then Joel had to go and mess it all up!
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Post by Kerrigan on Apr 1, 2008 21:41:47 GMT -5
I tried to go to the theology website and for some reason it said, "error" and wouldn't let me go to it. I was about to go wake up John. Now THAT is FUNNNNYYY! Hey, don't tell John about the joke...in fact, that would be great to tell him about the post without telling him I was joking. Is he in bed already?
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Post by Kerrigan on Apr 1, 2008 21:28:24 GMT -5
Yes it is! HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHA! Can you hear me laughing and rolling around on the floor Jesse? ;D
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Post by Kerrigan on Apr 1, 2008 21:25:04 GMT -5
Hey! What day is it, anyways...? Oh man! Joel, you didn't have to remind them! I think I actually had Jesse going there! HAHAHHAHAHAHA...APRIL FOOLS! ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Kerrigan on Apr 1, 2008 21:16:43 GMT -5
Ah huh.... And I'm really a Muslim! No really, Abraham's posts and Tony's phone calls...I'm really convinced. I know it's hard to believe, but it's true
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Post by Kerrigan on Apr 1, 2008 21:09:50 GMT -5
I'm sorry, I've been struggling with this all along. I have to confess, I have become a five point Calvinist. Sorry John and Jesse... Jesse, I am going to have to shut down the Theology Website too...
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Post by Kerrigan on Apr 1, 2008 19:52:13 GMT -5
Brother Abraham...in the other thread you stated that you watched my videos. I refuted most of the verses you have used in your post in my videos...
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Post by Kerrigan on Apr 1, 2008 22:13:53 GMT -5
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Post by Kerrigan on Apr 1, 2008 22:09:39 GMT -5
That's crazy! You're right, it isn't working anymore. The funny thing is that when you showed me that website, I remember that it hadn't been updated in like FOREVER. I was wondering to myself, "Why is this website still up?" God must have been holding it for us ;D
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Post by Kerrigan on Apr 1, 2008 21:57:25 GMT -5
Amen! That's some good stuff from Brother Britt!
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Post by Kerrigan on Apr 1, 2008 21:01:55 GMT -5
Amen! I love God's Law! I love to obey it, for it is not a burden to do so! Jesus laid it all down for me and the least I can do is do the same for Him!
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Post by Kerrigan on Apr 1, 2008 12:02:40 GMT -5
Yeah, I don't know why the message board is doing that. You can see the actual link above. In my post I have the "d" and the "f" together in ".pdf", but when the post comes up the message board separates the "d" and "f". Oh well...
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Post by Kerrigan on Apr 1, 2008 7:58:45 GMT -5
Where did all of this come from? When did I say it was wrong to read the theological writings of other men? I think that I have ALWAYS said that the Bible should be our soul source of Doctrine, but that doesn't mean we can't read the writings of men. Is this the pot calling the kettle black? In our discussions on this message board, I have almost never used quotes from men. I am constantly quoting a barrage of Scriptures and most times no one even takes the time to respond to them. But, you, Abraham, seem to post the writings of men over and over again. I was simply letting my brothers in Christ know about a good article. If you would like to respond to the article after you read it, feel free to do so. However, not every post needs this barrage of pro-Calvinistic doctrine in response without actually replying to the article at hand...
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Post by Kerrigan on Mar 31, 2008 23:43:49 GMT -5
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