|
Post by John McGlone on May 26, 2009 6:05:50 GMT -5
1 Pet 1:6-8 6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory,
Rev 3:17-19
17 Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked— 18 I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent.
|
|
|
Post by John McGlone on May 25, 2009 22:01:24 GMT -5
Dear Jonathan, You question my salvation? I claim Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. I received Him with godly sorrow that led me to repentance almost 14 years ago. Jesus Christ is God manifested in flesh. You have judged me unrighteously and you need to repent and seek forgiveness.
It is just such a shame that followers of Christ can not be patient enough to try and reason out their faith. I have not questioned your salvation Jonathan, just your doctrine.
God bless you.
John
|
|
|
Post by John McGlone on May 25, 2009 12:02:51 GMT -5
[1]“The Gift of the Holy Ghost” (Acts 10:45) has reference to the miraculous impartation of speaking in tongues that was a sign unto the Jews in order to confirm Peter’s words in verse 34 of Acts 10 (Hebrews 2:3,4). [2]The purpose of the Holy Spirit baptism was confirmation not conversion. (Hebrews 2:3,4) [3]Cornelius was not saved at the point of Holy Spirit baptism as this was before he heard the words commanded by God that he ought to do in order to be saved (Acts 10:6,22,33 11:15).
About Cornelius:
Cornelius was a devout man who feared God and prayed to the God of the Bible, and gave alms always (Acts 10:2). (Yet was not saved)
Cornelius already knew that: (Starting in verse 37 “These things ye know…”)
* God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power (38) * That Jesus went about doing good, healing and casting out daemons (38) * Jesus was hanged on a tree (39) * God raised him up on the third day (40) * That everyone who believed in his name would receive remission of sins (43) (It is because Cornelius believed on the Lord Jesus Christ that God sent Peter to command him to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of his sins. )
Cornelius knew all of this yet was not saved. So much for faith only.
Question for you: “Forasmuch, then, as God gave them the same gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I, that I could withstand God?” Acts 11:17 Withstand God from doing what?His point is not what you are making but that the Gentiles by faith would be accepted into the household of God. Acts 10:42-43 And He commanded us to preach to the people, and to testify that it is He who was ordained by God to be Judge of the living and the dead. 43 To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins.”
Acts 11:18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life.” Peter did not go there to baptize in water but to preach the Word of Life, that is Christ! Dear Mr. McGlone, I’m sorry for using red; I will avoid using it from here on out. I hope you will avoid multiple posts in the future as it is much easier to address your questions on one post. I agree that it is by faith that we are saved but the faith that saves is the faith that obeys. Just as Noah had to build an ark, Abraham had to leave his homeland, the Children of Israel had to blow their trumpets and march around the city of Jericho, etc. so then must we also be baptized for the remission of our sins. You’ve stated, Water baptism is a response to trusting Christ. Which is exactly what 1 Peter 3:21 says. However, you don’t believe that it saves us which directly contradicts the passage.. You also keep blaspheming the Lord’s church. I’d hate to believe anything that the church of Christ doesn’t teach. You’ve made absolutely no respectable contextual points on the conversion of Cornelius and have avoided the questions I asked you in my previous posts. You are being disrespectful in refusing to answer my questions as I’ve continued to address yours time and time again. This post is about exposing PinPointEvangelism.com and having them be held accountable for their words that they’ve spoken in times past. You have refused to be held accountable for the doctrines you uphold. You’ve expressed your arrogance by refusing to give contextual refutations to Biblical passages. If you chose to continue to do so, I will continue to sharply rebuke you. I took the time to outline and highlight my previous post in hopes that you would address and deal with my rebuttal. However, you’ve chosen to ignore me time and time again. You haven’t even studied the topic of water baptism yet you’ve already judged it as being heresy. You’ve approached the topic of water baptism with the attitude; “This cannot be so.” However, if I’ve told you earthly things and you believe not how then shall you understand the rest of the Bible? I know that you and the rest of PinPointEvangelism.com love to read the quotes form the early church and I would encourage you to examine what the early church believed about water baptism. You don’t have to search to far as I’ve posted a link filled with nothing but quotes. I ask you to lay aside your feelings and study this topic with me (as I already asked you in times past.) I hope to hear you address my questions on your following post because if you wait too long there may be too many to address. Dear Jonathan, I don't answer to you Jonathan. As Guy commented and I agree with him, your caustic attitude does nothing to help your case. It in fact hinders many from being persuaded of your doctrine. I must admit the ECF have a seemingly compelling argument for water baptism as a condition of salvation. Especially Justin Martyr's writings. But, two points to counter that; 1. ECF is not scripture 2. ALL of the ECF does not agree with you suppositions about baptism. For example, Justin Martyr also wrote these which contradict your suppositions of water baptism as a condition of salvation: ECF Vol 1, DIALOGUE OF JUSTIN, PHILOSOPHER AND MARTYR, WITH TRYPHO, A JEW, CH XIV, RIGHTEOUSNESS IS NOT PLACED IN JEWISH RITES, BUT IN THE CONVERSION OF THE HEART GIVEN IN BAPTISM BY CHRIST. Pg 201 "By reason, therefore, of this laver of repentance and knowledge of God, which has been ordained on account of the transgression of God's people, as Isaiah cries, we have believed, and testify that that very baptism which he announced is alone able to purify those who have repented; and this is the water of life. But the cisterns which you have dug for yourselves are broken and profitless to you. For what is the use of that baptism which cleanses the flesh and body alone? Baptize the soul from wrath and from covetousness, from envy, and from hatred; and, lo! the body is pure. For this is the symbolic significance of unleavened bread, that you do not commit the old deeds of wicked leaven. ECF Ch XIX, Dialogue of Justin Martyr with Trypho the Jew pg 412 Nor do we receive that useless baptism of cisterns, for it has nothing to do with this baptism of life. Wherefore also God has announced that you have forsaken Him, the living fountain, and digged for your selves broken cisterns which can hold no water. Even you, who are the circumcised according to the flesh, have need of our circumcision; but we, having the latter, do not require the former. God bless you. John P.S. If you could please stick to one point per dialogue it would be helpful, I don't do machine gun copy/paste dialogue, thanks!
|
|
|
Post by John McGlone on May 25, 2009 6:23:16 GMT -5
[1]“The Gift of the Holy Ghost” (Acts 10:45) has reference to the miraculous impartation of speaking in tongues that was a sign unto the Jews in order to confirm Peter’s words in verse 34 of Acts 10 (Hebrews 2:3,4). [2]The purpose of the Holy Spirit baptism was confirmation not conversion. (Hebrews 2:3,4) [3]Cornelius was not saved at the point of Holy Spirit baptism as this was before he heard the words commanded by God that he ought to do in order to be saved (Acts 10:6,22,33 11:15).
About Cornelius:
Cornelius was a devout man who feared God and prayed to the God of the Bible, and gave alms always (Acts 10:2). (Yet was not saved)
Cornelius already knew that: (Starting in verse 37 “These things ye know…”)
* God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power (38) * That Jesus went about doing good, healing and casting out daemons (38) * Jesus was hanged on a tree (39) * God raised him up on the third day (40) * That everyone who believed in his name would receive remission of sins (43) (It is because Cornelius believed on the Lord Jesus Christ that God sent Peter to command him to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of his sins. )
Cornelius knew all of this yet was not saved. So much for faith only.
Question for you: “Forasmuch, then, as God gave them the same gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I, that I could withstand God?” Acts 11:17 Withstand God from doing what?
His point is not what you are making but that the Gentiles by faith would be accepted into the household of God.
Acts 10:42-43 And He commanded us to preach to the people, and to testify that it is He who was ordained by God to be Judge of the living and the dead. 43 To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins.”
Acts 11:18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life.”
Peter did not go there to baptize in water but to preach the Word of Life, that is Christ!
|
|
|
Post by John McGlone on May 25, 2009 6:17:14 GMT -5
Dear Jonathan,
Can you avoid using red please it is difficult for me to read thank you.
Grace saves us through faith (Ephesians 2:9) but faith without works is dead (James 2:26).
The Holy Spirit Regenerates us at the point of Justification and Sanctification upon the completion of the conditions of salvation.
You are reading your definition of conditions of salvation into the Bible.
If is by faith that you are saved...
I am sure you will respond that faith will lead you to water baptism.
I agree with that, but disagree that a person is not saved until they get into the natural water. Water baptism is a Christians response to trusting Christ as Lord and Savior.
Stop your renegade C of C interpretations of God's Holy writ! Please stop with the personal attacks and just prove your points, thank you.
|
|
|
Post by John McGlone on May 24, 2009 21:39:27 GMT -5
The Holy Spirit is God, our God is a consuming fire. So yes they were baptized with fire. But, you would like to put some water on Him as a requirement for salvation!
You have traded the power of the Spirit for a water ordinance.
|
|
|
I quit.
May 24, 2009 21:36:38 GMT -5
Post by John McGlone on May 24, 2009 21:36:38 GMT -5
Prov 27:5
|
|
|
Post by John McGlone on May 24, 2009 21:16:32 GMT -5
Most assuredly I say unto except a man is born of the water and the spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. So here is John 3, you are supposing this means water baptism? Is that your proposition? Most assuredly. Here is the context of John 3; a natural birth from a mother by which the water is broken then Jesus compares this with the supernatural rebirth by the Holy Spirit for the new believer. The Holy Spirit is also known as the Living Water. John 3:3-8 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.” Please note also the answer to your previous statement, 'There is no commandment to be baptized in the Holy Ghost...' Here it is shown that a person is required to be saved by the Holy Spirit at the end of the passage. Don't you see how you trade the Living Water immersion for a water ordinance? I agree we should be baptized in water after salvation, not as a seal of salvation.
|
|
|
Post by John McGlone on May 24, 2009 20:07:18 GMT -5
I never said there was power in the water. If you believe there was power in the ark of Noah, then I suppose you can believe there is power in the waters of Baptism. However, by claiming there is power in the ark of Noah or the waters of Baptism you go beyond that which is written as the Bible never gives power to baptism, the ark of Noah, repentance, or belief as they cannot exercise that power. The individual is granted power in which he must chose to obey the Gospel of Jesus Christ "Repent ye, and be baptized... for the remission of you sins."Dear Jonathan, Yes you have clearly posted over and again that belief without obedience to the water immersion will not result in an effectual conversion experience. I will ask again is conversion by the Holy Spirit effectual for salvation before we get into the water? I will answer once again; "There's no commandment to be baptized in the Holy Ghost. If you believe we must be baptized in the Holy Ghost, tell us how and supply an example of people being baptized in the Holy Ghost in order to obtain salvation. Be careful to use Bible terms for Bible examples. "If you want a different answer define your question. Define "by" and explain how this conversion your talking about occurs. I've gathered from your post that it's some sort of feel good experience. Cornelius and his whole household were immersed in the Holy Ghost. Nice try, conversion may come with good feelings afterward. But: 2 Cor 7:9-10 Now I rejoice, not that you were made sorry, but that your sorrow led to repentance. For you were made sorry in a godly manner, that you might suffer loss from us in nothing. 10 For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death
|
|
|
Post by John McGlone on May 24, 2009 19:34:08 GMT -5
"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, he that believeth not shall be damned." Mark 16:16
"Repent ye and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins..." Acts 2:38
"Why tarriest thou, arise and be baptized and wash away they sins calling upon the name of the Lord." Acts 22:16
"Know ye not that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?" Romans 6:3
"For ye are all children of God by faith in Christ Jesus, for as many of you as have been baptiezd into Christ have put on Christ." Galatians 3:26,27
"That he might sanctify and cleanse it (the church) with the washing of water by the word."
"In whom also ye are circumsiced with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God who hath raised him from the dead." Colossians 2:11-12
"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and the renewing of the Holy Ghost." Titus 2:5
"The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us..." 1 Peter 3:21
"For there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one." 1 John 5:8
It doesn't get any more clear than that.
Oh I agree with all of these, just not the supposition you are overlaying water baptism. That is as you have stated faith in Christ and regeneration by the Holy Spirit are ineffectual for salvation until a person is immersed in water.
|
|
|
Post by John McGlone on May 24, 2009 7:32:30 GMT -5
Saving faith believes that God "is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." (Hebrews 11:6). If you believe that God saves you before you do anything, then you don't have a saving faith. In fact, it's dead (James 2:24,26)
I agree with these scriptures Jonathan, but do you agree with all scriptures?
Rom 4:1-3 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
Justification is not by works. Is water baptism a work? How do you define what works are that they can be separated from our thinking about our salvation? Maybe you suppose repentance is a work, but is it really a physical work or just a change of heart and mind about our sin, God's righteousness, and His judgment to come? John 16:8
|
|
|
Post by John McGlone on May 24, 2009 6:33:07 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by John McGlone on May 24, 2009 6:28:39 GMT -5
Most assuredly I say unto except a man is born of the water and the spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
So here is John 3, you are supposing this means water baptism? Is that your proposition?
|
|
|
Post by John McGlone on May 24, 2009 6:26:05 GMT -5
I never said there was power in the water. If you believe there was power in the ark of Noah, then I suppose you can believe there is power in the waters of Baptism. However, by claiming there is power in the ark of Noah or the waters of Baptism you go beyond that which is written as the Bible never gives power to baptism, the ark of Noah, repentance, or belief as they cannot exercise that power. The individual is granted power in which he must chose to obey the Gospel of Jesus Christ "Repent ye, and be baptized... for the remission of you sins."
Dear Jonathan,
Yes you have clearly posted over and again that belief without obedience to the water immersion will not result in an effectual conversion experience.
I will ask again is conversion by the Holy Spirit effectual for salvation before we get into the water?
|
|
|
Post by John McGlone on May 24, 2009 6:20:23 GMT -5
Luk 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. Jesus told the unbaptized thief on the cross that he would be in paradise that very day. Either Jesus is a liar or He isn't, period. - You've spoken where the Bibles silent as we are not told whether or not the thief on the cross was baptized. He could have just as well been baptized prior to the cross and as a result of a true repentant faith decided to right his wrongs by turning himself in and accepting his due punishment.
- The Thief on the cross lived under the Old Covenant.
- The Thief on the cross lived before the baptism which is in the name of Jesus Christ came into affect.
- Christ had power on earth to forgive sins however he wished. He has chosen to forgive sins today through belief, repentance, confession, faith, and baptism.
God has always saved men the same way; By Grace through faith. Saving faith believes that God "is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." (Hebrews 11:6). If you believe that God saves you before you do anything, then you don't have a saving faith. In fact, it's dead (James 2:24,26) Jonathan Dear Jonathan, You too have spoken from silence. The ironic thing is if this was a matter of salvation as you suppose then shouldn't God have clearly outlined it?
|
|
|
Post by John McGlone on May 23, 2009 22:03:19 GMT -5
Luk 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. Jesus told the unbaptized thief on the cross that he would be in paradise that very day. Either Jesus is a liar or He isn't, period. Dear Joe, I suppose that Jonathan will respond something like this: Baptism regenerationalist defenders say that, before Jesus' death on the cross, he did at times forgive sins for differing reasons and with differing actions on the part of the one forgiven (cf. Mark 2:2-5, Luke 7:36-48) but, since his death, one must be united with him through baptism (Romans 6:3-7). Naturally, this argument is rejected by Christians who believe that God has always saved people by the same means for the same reason. Through faith by conviction of the Holy Spirit turning from sin and unto the gospel of Jesus. And I have another point I'd like to make about this particular event, but will save it for later as I am still studying it. God bless you Joe, John
|
|
|
Post by John McGlone on May 23, 2009 9:59:53 GMT -5
Dear Jonathan, You suppose the Bible does not say when the disciples were baptized. But, actually it does and not according to your view. Luke 3:16-17 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire: Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable. Now my first question for the first part point #1 is, when did this happen for the New Covenant believers? My second question will come after you have responded with the grace you have been given. God bless you. John Luke 3 does not say that they were saved at the point of Holy Spirit Baptism. 1) Explain your question. When did the believers get baptized with the Holy Spirit, and fire? If anyone else knows the answer to this simple Bible trivia question please feel free to chime in please, thank you.
|
|
|
Post by John McGlone on May 23, 2009 9:55:54 GMT -5
Dear Jonathan, This is great! Now please be patient as I am finishing my study and spending the evening with my family tonight and I will be in fellowship with other believers most of tomorrow. I hope to respond to these verses you have posed by Sunday. God bless you. John Dear John, I hope you choose to use scripture. Jonathan Dear Jonathan, I hope that you can see scripture in my posts without quoting chapter and isolated verses as you have. But, I will try and keep up and list the chapter and verses every time I post. God bless you. John
|
|
|
Post by John McGlone on May 22, 2009 20:52:32 GMT -5
Kerrigan has a great line of reasoning that shuts their mouth.
I would PM him for details as I probably will miss something.
The Quran states that Jesus is a prophet.
The Quran states that Muslims must believe the Enjeel (the gospel)
The Quran states that allah has no son.
The gospel accounts testify that Jesus called Himself the Son of God and that He and the Father are One.
They will reply that the scriptures are corrupted.
Then the Bible which was codified six hundred years prior to the birth of the false prophet Muhammed has over 24,000 manuscript copies. To wit these scriptures almost in entirety except for a few grammatical errors match exactly the Holy Bible we have today.
Conclusion: Jesus is the Son of God, the Muslim must obey the Enjeel and repent toward the Living God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and receive Jesus as Lord and Savior!
Amen.
Check with Kerrigan I may have left something out. I saw him use this a few times on our OH outreach and they were blasted to the bone! It was great, Hallelujah!
|
|
|
Post by John McGlone on May 22, 2009 19:35:40 GMT -5
Dear Jonathan,
This is great! Now please be patient as I am finishing my study and spending the evening with my family tonight and I will be in fellowship with other believers most of tomorrow. I hope to respond to these verses you have posed by Sunday.
God bless you.
John
|
|
|
Post by John McGlone on May 22, 2009 19:30:21 GMT -5
Praying for you brother! Keep the faith.
|
|
|
Post by John McGlone on May 22, 2009 18:34:56 GMT -5
If someone dies before they make it to the water's of Baptism then they waited too late to be baptized. Just as someone who died on their way to hear the Gospel waited too late to give a preacher a moment of their time.
The power of salvation is in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. When a man believes the gospel he receives the right or power to become a child of God. The individual has the power to obey the truth and be baptized. There's no more power in the waters of Baptism than there was in the ark of Noah. Both are vehicles one must use in order to be delivered form the pollutions of this world.
Dear Jonathan,
So the power is in the WATER! I am glad we got that straightened out. Now can you please tell me why you keep contradicting your positions in your posts? Let me make sure I understand; You say the power is in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, then you say it is not effectual until you by obedient faith are immersed in the water. Is that a correct understanding of your proposition?
What if you were stranded in the desert, you cried out to God in repentant faith as you were about to die. Water could not be had for hundreds of miles, much less enough to be baptized with. You knew by the instruction of the C of C that unless you made it to the water that you would die in your sin because you have not been physically washed or immersed.
Does that sound logical to you?
God bless you. John
|
|
|
Post by John McGlone on May 22, 2009 17:55:36 GMT -5
First, when did the disciples get saved, was it when they were baptized by John? Second, what about the thief on the cross, what happened to him? Thanks in advance, if you decide to answer. 1. The Bible doesn't say when they were baptized. Every person in the New Testament that Believed unto (toward) the remission of sins was baptized with water. Since everyone who believed and was saved was baptized, it is safe to assume that the Apostles who believed and were saved were also baptized. We know Paul was for sure (Acts 22:16). I'd also hate to place the assurance of my salvation on something that the Bible doesn't say instead of what the Bible does say. For instance: The Bible doesn't say that the Apostles were baptized, therefore, I don't have to be baptized in order to be saved. The Bible says that the Baptism which is in the name of Jesus is for the remission of sins and that same Baptism which is in the name of Jesus is with water. (Acts 2:38 10:47,48) 2 The thief on the cross lived under the Old Covenant and before the great commission where the new baptism, which is in the name of Jesus was commissioned. I wouldn't be concerned about what the thief on the cross had to do to be saved if I were you. Whose to say he wasn't baptized with the baptism of John? Not to say that the Baptism of John was sufficient (Acts 19). However, this just goes to show you how presumptuous the denominational world is when it comes to Water Baptism. Hope that helped. Those who so chose to mock me are also invited to engage in an organized civil debate. Of course, there are no takers. Dear Jonathan, You suppose the Bible does not say when the disciples were baptized. But, actually it does and not according to your view. Luke 3:16-17 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire: Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable. Now my first question for the first part point #1 is, when did this happen for the New Covenant believers? My second question will come after you have responded with the grace you have been given. God bless you. John
|
|
|
Post by John McGlone on May 22, 2009 17:50:56 GMT -5
Anytime I want to get close to God, I just take a shower You made me laugh. ;D
|
|
|
Post by John McGlone on May 22, 2009 17:42:17 GMT -5
Dear Mr. Whitehead,
Would you deal with one of Mr. Holland's primary points?
"I have never understood this concept. According to this thinking, a person could
1) Become aware of his sin 2) Repent 3) Believe that Jesus Christ is his Savior and have a legitimate change of heart. 4) Be hit by a bus and die 5) Spend eternity in Hell because he wasn't yet baptized."
You contradict yourself when you say there is no power in the water of baptism to save. Then you lead us to all of your cherry picked points that one must be water baptized to be saved. This is a fallacious conclusion.
May we agree that we should be baptized in water?
Do we have to be baptized in the Holy Ghost?
Do we have to be baptized in fire?
|
|
|
Post by John McGlone on Apr 11, 2009 15:56:33 GMT -5
Thank God everyone doesn't have Soldier For Christ's "courage in battle" for dealing with the demonic possessed. Some solider. He just retreated. If you knew anything about being a soldier you would know that retreating is a battle tactic.
|
|
|
Post by John McGlone on Apr 11, 2009 15:19:06 GMT -5
You read it. Repent or Perish!
|
|
|
Post by John McGlone on Apr 10, 2009 8:40:20 GMT -5
God bless you Shane.
|
|
|
Post by John McGlone on Apr 10, 2009 8:33:12 GMT -5
Praying for you JK.
|
|
|
Post by John McGlone on Apr 10, 2009 8:22:13 GMT -5
Hey Joe, Of topic a little bit but having to do with the abode of the dead as I understand the ECF believed. If we are in the upper compartment of Hades and most are in the lower compartment. Then we are not yet judged but know our eternal destiny just by our current location prior to judgment day. I don't know why I never thought of this before when I believed that believers died and are in the presence of the Lord in heaven.
|
|