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Post by darcfollowingjesus on May 3, 2006 8:03:12 GMT -5
DARC, why are you persistent like this? ? Ok, we understand what you've been saying over and over again...I get it, Darc.No need to go further.Just stop.Stop. I'm telling you, Darc, there's something wrong about you.I may be called judgmental or evil or false or whatever. I'm willing to risk my reputation for the integrity of Scripture. Your spirit is not right. You are of a divisive spirit. You aren;t trying to HELP but to HURT. You can lie about it, exaggerate, pretend what I'm saying is untrue or un-Christ like.... It makes no difference. I know the Voice of the Shepherd, Darc. His Voice tells me that you're not of a right spirit. Stop it. In the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ, I command you to stop this now. In the Name of Jesus, Darc, obey the Holy Spirit's leading and stop this. My friend, one question; What part of your words and behavior are Christ-like? Secondly as far as I remember you had chosen to step out of the conversation and so therefore my comments and use of God's Word were not toward you as much as they are for the edification of all saints and anyone seeking the truth. You clearly have stated your position which I am OK with but yet you seem to think that you can be disruptive. I don't recognize your comments or any man's comment regarding eternal truths if they are not backed and grounded in the Word of God. Every word we speak will come under a judgment by the Lord Jesus. I love you but I fail to see what you are trying to accomplish.
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Post by biblethumper on May 3, 2006 8:13:34 GMT -5
Darc, stop . This is not about debate.You are being ungodly in your attempts and not being of the Spirit of God.It was apparent to me you would attack my statements.It was easily discernable.I will not back down from what I know to be an alien spirit and nor will I compromise on what i know you are operating under.
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Post by darcfollowingjesus on May 3, 2006 11:45:56 GMT -5
Please answer the question. "What part of your words and behavior are Christ-like?"
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Post by Jules on May 3, 2006 12:03:22 GMT -5
man....I just picture Christ walking in this thread and reading our words here. How they must grieve Him that His children argue and divide.
Is it possible, just maybe, that not everyone on this board knows everything about everything already? Is it possible that the Lord teaches us different things at different times and brings revelation to each of us in His timing? Do we just suddenly have complete knowledge and understanding of ALL topics, doctrines, teachings in the Bible? Of course not.
We are accountable for what is revealed to us. (Deut 29:29) To whom much is given....etc. Does that give us an excuse to be ignorant? Certainly not. But who here claims to know ALL the answers? Are we so arrogant to think that we have perfect knowledge of our infinite Creator and His ways in the few years of our life on earth?
All I am saying is, we each lack knowledge. Division is NEVER EVER from the Spirit of God. Love brings unity, and division is of the devil. Now, certainly satan wants to divide us. Let's not allow that to happen if possible. There are so few of us to begin with!
The entire body suffers when division occurs. This is not just about two men disagreeing, this concerns all of us. For the sake of the brethren and sisters here, but mostly for the sake of Christ, please reconcile to each other, is possible.
Love in Christ, Jules
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Post by biblethumper on May 3, 2006 12:05:45 GMT -5
Yes, agreed, Jules. I follow the train and pattern of thought that you have given here.
Also, DARC, I have posted to you in the other thread; please read it as the response, because it is the only one I am giving.
May God be with you,
Godspeed,
Dan
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Post by Jules on May 3, 2006 12:49:44 GMT -5
Dan, I read you other post. it appears for you NOT to be about doctrine, but for darc, it is all about doctrine. He is passionate about this, and that's his right, even if I don't agree and think he is wrong. I'm not gonna get worked up over it. Honestly, he shouldn't be worried about us - he should be worried about the false converts who are ABUSING the doctrine of OSAS. I don't think anyone on this board who believes in eternal security or perserverance of the saints is abusing that doctrine as a license for sin. So perhaps the arguments he is using, as well as the scriptures, would serve better in a situation where someone was continuing in sain, and it owuld cause them to examine themselves to see if they were in the faiht, and they would discover they were NOT. Then, even if it is a false teaching, praise God they are at least on the right track to being faithful. May God open thair eyes and give them assurance of their salvation at some point, as He so graciously did to me. But for now, I would just say that the debates are wasted here in large part.
Like RevK, I am not convinced by reading the hoards of Dan Corner material that I will lose my salvation or cease to have assurance. I bought the 600 page Conditional Security book and read it, then threw it away. It didn't convince me either. So, moving on to other things....
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Post by evanschaible on May 3, 2006 14:01:04 GMT -5
I will answer the question for BibleTumper, "Open Rebuke is better than secret love". He think your wrong, you think he is wrong. Either, way, eternal security really doesnt hinder salvation until it becomes a license. If holiness is taught, lived, and believed, I dont think eternal security matters. However, I wouldnt teach a bran new convert eternal security.
UNTIY IN DIVISION!! DIVISION IN UNITY!! Is it possible, yes it is, very much so. Ask Whitefield and Wesley, they had their disputes, but Wesley preached at Whitefields funeral. Luther had a friend that belived things he didnt.
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Post by Jules on May 3, 2006 17:51:43 GMT -5
I will answer the question for BibleTumper, "Open Rebuke is better than secret love". He think your wrong, you think he is wrong. Either, way, eternal security really doesnt hinder salvation until it becomes a license. If holiness is taught, lived, and believed, I dont think eternal security matters. However, I wouldnt teach a bran new convert eternal security. That is exactly what I was trying to say Evan, you just said it much better (and more concise!) than I. The teaching doesn't become a problem UNLESS it is taught as a license to sin. IN my case, that is the way it was taught. So the Lord opened my eyes, actually though Dan Corner's teachings, but then quickly showed me the doctrines of grace, and now I have a much more Biblical and accurate knowledge of the truth (IMOP) The next step for me to "get cleared up" is the holiness teaching. Which I was NEVER taught. It never made sense under the OSAS teaching I was raised in, but now that I understand election, calling, and the sovereignty of God, holiness naturally follows. I am so excited to learn of Him more and more...
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Post by aaron on May 4, 2006 2:13:59 GMT -5
This is an interesting topic. It is something I've always thought was wrong (an excuse for sinning) but have found to my surprise that there are people like Biblethumper, who believe in both present holiness and eternal security. I can't understand this but I guess you don't always understand everything in life. Biblethumper, it is great that you believe in present holiness but could you please reply to the verses Darc has posted? I would really like to read your reply and learn why you believe what you believe. Can we redirect this discussion back to eternal security. Please don't attack anyone personally, simply discuss the topic using the truth of God's word. Don't take personal offense, surly we all love one another here.
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Post by biblethumper on May 4, 2006 9:34:50 GMT -5
Our assurance of Salvation is in direct proportion to our Holiness, and because I believe that moderate Calvinism is straight-on, I also believe that we are assured of salvation in holiness BECAUSE holiness is something graciously given by God to His Children; so we are assured and kept, not because of a profession of Faith, but that assurance is given BECAUSE of that holiness which in effect CAUSES on to remain "in the Faith".
Being in the faith without Holiness is impossible.
Salvation and Holiness cannot be separated from one another, contrary to what some hyper arminians state, who have no idea what the Reformed position actually is.
The Reformed position states clearly and undeniably that perseverance is assured because of the fact of holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.
I remember arguing with my Calvinistic Pastor uncle, saved for 35 years...I asked him why his "Calvinism" allowed people to "sin all they want"....
He explained to me what the Doctrines of the Reformed position state, and since he, a Calvinist, never once backslid or "gave himself a license to sin" in all of the 35 years of his Salvation, I knew that I must be biased in my views, because what hyper-arminians teach was NOT what my uncle lived or preached or practiced.
I had to come to grips with the fact that quite possibly people with the views of Dan Corner and other hyper arminians were either (a) blatant liars or (b) in denial of what Calvinists actually teach concerning the Doctrine of Perseverance.
After careful study, prayer and a few years of a spiritual struggle as to this issue, I had no choice but to submit that I was in error concerning the actual doctrines of Calvinism and what they actually taught.
I noted that that many Arminians, who believe you can "lose it" were more likely to actually test their doctrine by moving into blatant sin.
I noted that many Calvinists, yes, MANY, preached OSAS and yet lived in holiness and purity before God and before men.
I come from the Arminian backyard, and I was camped out there for YEARS...I pastored and preached and was in a position of authority over many....this gave me the opportunity to see and hear more than the average pew warmer.
I saw gross immorality in many Arminain assemblies.
Sexual perversion.
Drunkeness.
Lying.
False prophecy.
Homosexuality.
I saw it all and I preached to large crouds, my main focus being on Revival and coming into a deeper walk with God.
You have no idea how many Arminians would come tothe altar week after week to "rededicate themselves to Jesus".
The Calvinists?
I found far fewer Reformed Brethren living in sin and making excuses for it.
My uncle is a Calvinist and one of the most powerful advocates of Holiness.
I cannot say, in honest retrospect, that the Arminian assemblies which I ministered in were living better than the Calvinists.
For people who talked about losing their Salvation, it seems like they teste dthat doctrine once a week and then "repenting" on Sunday.
The Calvinists that I knew, with the exception of three in total from a PERSONAL level, lived in purity.
The greatest test of a doctrine, to see whether it is of God or not, is best seen when it is put into practice.
The Arminian doctrine has failed miserably to maintain Holiness in the lives of it's followers.
The Reformed Doctrines have given us more for the mile, because when it comes to LIVING IT, there's just no comparison.
Why?
It's simple:
Many Reformed believers are humbled by the fact that God will ALWAYS uphold them, so they don't WANT to sin or live wickedly.
The Reformed position brings a sense of awe when one realizes the Power of the Blood of Jesus to keep you.
I'm preparing a study on Perseverance...I'll post as soon as done.
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Post by Josh Parsley on May 4, 2006 10:34:26 GMT -5
Is salvation a covenant?
Covenant- A binding agreement; a compact. Law. A formal sealed agreement or contract.
Can a covenant be broken?
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Post by Josh Parsley on May 4, 2006 10:45:36 GMT -5
Is a marriage a covenant? Can it be broken?
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Post by biblethumper on May 4, 2006 11:33:40 GMT -5
Ahh Josh, you fail to see the difference in Covenant.
Marriage is God, man and woman...all three have a role and a position.
Salvation, as agreed on by all denominational an individual standards of Doctrinal Purity, was between Father and Son, humans being the recipients of the Covenant.
The Blood was shed as a Covenant between the father and Jesus Christ....thus, it is an eternally binding Covenant which keeps the recipient preserved BECAUSE of it's nature.
The Blood Covenent was not made with the consultation of man, Josh.
That Blood Covenant was sealed before the Foundation of the World, Scripture makes clear.
You cannot compare the marriage Covenant with the Blood Covenant; as a matter of fact I have never seen it presented as you have, and to be honest, and not as a Calvinist or Arminian, I see WHY; it's blatant error to place the two on the same footing.
unBiblical, Josh, from all doctrinal perspectives.
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Post by Josh Parsley on May 4, 2006 11:43:01 GMT -5
Haha ok. I was just asking questions to spur reponses.
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Post by Josh Parsley on May 4, 2006 11:47:19 GMT -5
The reason for the first question was to see what people viewed the covenant as between God and man or what their view was. If man wasn't involved, then man wouldn't have a choice... just looking to gain some perspectives... And if man did have a choice then how, if he wasn't a party of the covenant, but a result.
And then that would bring the question of if it could be broken.
Maybe I should have just started a new thread? I think it goes along to what we are talking about.
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Post by biblethumper on May 4, 2006 11:48:17 GMT -5
oh! i didn't catch on that you knew of Covenant Theology! I see you do
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Post by Josh Parsley on May 4, 2006 12:47:40 GMT -5
I know very very little about it. I think I will start a thread with a few thoughts/questions on it soon.
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Post by biblethumper on May 4, 2006 20:15:51 GMT -5
Eternal Security for the Believer: Some would argue that is a Christian goes back into sin and falls away from serving the Lord that that person is again LOST and NOT a Chrisian anymore. Such an argument is faulty, as the following will show: John 10: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. You see, when you become a Child of God, NO ONE can pluck you from the Mighty Hand of Almighty God! Not only THAT, but Jesus SPECIFICALLY states that you will NEVER perish.... either never means NEVER or it doesn't! This is not meant for thumper, it is meant to refute a common misconception and misunderstanding of this passageJohn 10:28 is a wonderful and true promise, but only as Jesus meant it to be understood. To discern this, we must examine verse 27 carefully to learn who the pronouns them and they are referring to in verse 28. Together these two verses from the NIV read: My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. (v.27) I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. (v.28) Verse 27 clearly describes the type of person who will never perish, as mentioned in the next verse! He said his sheep are listeners of his voice, whom he knows and who follow him. The word translated follow is present indicative active in the Greek, which means that it expresses continuous action. In other words, as long as we remain faithful and continue to follow Jesus, he will, indeed, assure us that we will never perish, verse 28. to disregard verse 27 is to twist John 10:28 out of context and distort Jesus' teaching.The promise of never perishing, as cited in verse 28, does not exist anywhere in the entire Bible for one who would turn away from a dedication to Christ. For example, Paul knew of widows who turned from Christ and started to follow Satan (1Tim. 5:11-15). That apostle knew this could and did happen! (Unlike many in our day, Paul did not say of those widows that they were never really saved to begin with because they turned from their dedication to Christ and started to follow Satan.)To read into John 10:28 the words, under any circumstance after the words never perish, is to distort the passage. Jesus did not include these words in his promise and neither should we. The description of his sheep shows that the security cited in the next two verses is a conditional one. Darc... you did the same with this post as the one in "Questions For Arminians" You stole Corner's words and gave no credit. We see this is true by going here to read Corner's words, which you ripped off: www.evangelicaloutreach.org/faq.htmYou are a hypocrite
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Post by darcfollowingjesus on May 5, 2006 8:47:31 GMT -5
if you want to crucify me, then crucify me. your own disdain for anything other than your precious doctrine has you blinded to the truth of the Word.
I don't attack people like Charles Spurgeon, Ray Comfort, Dave Hunt or any of the others that you ascribe to. I take the time to bring the Word to the table in it's glory to do the speaking. Yes, I like the way Dan Corner approaches seeking the Truth. But if you or anyone let's that get in your way of allowing God to bring Truth to you then you are allowing the enemy win. That is a sad thing for sure.
Yes, I have posted some of Dan Corner's material here without saying it. I have no excuse.
Just exactly what do you want thumper? do you want my head on a platter? do you want me to quit, to leave the discusions? do you want control of the boards? do you want everyone to see just what you see without the influence of Word?
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Post by biblethumper on May 5, 2006 8:54:49 GMT -5
Eternal Security for the Believer: Some would argue that is a Christian goes back into sin and falls away from serving the Lord that that person is again LOST and NOT a Chrisian anymore. Such an argument is faulty, as the following will show: John 10: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. You see, when you become a Child of God, NO ONE can pluck you from the Mighty Hand of Almighty God! Not only THAT, but Jesus SPECIFICALLY states that you will NEVER perish.... either never means NEVER or it doesn't! This is not meant for thumper, it is meant to refute a common misconception and misunderstanding of this passageJohn 10:28 is a wonderful and true promise, but only as Jesus meant it to be understood. To discern this, we must examine verse 27 carefully to learn who the pronouns them and they are referring to in verse 28. Together these two verses from the NIV read: My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. (v.27) I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. (v.28) Verse 27 clearly describes the type of person who will never perish, as mentioned in the next verse! He said his sheep are listeners of his voice, whom he knows and who follow him. The word translated follow is present indicative active in the Greek, which means that it expresses continuous action. In other words, as long as we remain faithful and continue to follow Jesus, he will, indeed, assure us that we will never perish, verse 28. to disregard verse 27 is to twist John 10:28 out of context and distort Jesus' teaching.The promise of never perishing, as cited in verse 28, does not exist anywhere in the entire Bible for one who would turn away from a dedication to Christ. For example, Paul knew of widows who turned from Christ and started to follow Satan (1Tim. 5:11-15). That apostle knew this could and did happen! (Unlike many in our day, Paul did not say of those widows that they were never really saved to begin with because they turned from their dedication to Christ and started to follow Satan.)To read into John 10:28 the words, under any circumstance after the words never perish, is to distort the passage. Jesus did not include these words in his promise and neither should we. The description of his sheep shows that the security cited in the next two verses is a conditional one. Upon a recheck, I was correct; no dc, no line of credit ...NOTHING. Simply look above, which is YOUR post, with no credit, no dc, no mention of corner...you took his words and use dthem as your own reply, thus walking in the practice of beinga a thief and a liar and one without integrity. Again, you're a liar. No more calling you on your sin; you refuse to repent. I shake the dust off of my feet and remove myself from responding to you as I see you cannot admit sinful behavior. This is a sorrowful day, darc. I pray God's best for you. I cannot, however, speak with you on any other issue or even on confession...because you have shown disdain for truth by claiming that which was never your own.Posting dc on one article is STILL sneaky and less than honest...you BLATANTLY lied on THIS post and others giving no credit for anything, but again, using Corner as your own. Sinful. That's enough from me now I'm satisfied that the Lord has opened my eyes for a reason. I don't want your head on a platter, or want you to leave or whatever else; what I would have like dis an answer from YOU, without having to copy and paste Corner, and then claiming you gave him credit when you know you did not. Now I will move on. That said, post as you will, say what you will.... but I part company.
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Post by darcfollowingjesus on May 5, 2006 17:50:05 GMT -5
I will say this one time. The way you handle people is an abomination to everyone who calls themselves Christian. Your cheap insults, name calling, rude and outright arrogant attitude to anyone who, in your view, has sinned or stumbled is embarassing to the Christian community.
Your very vocal attitude toward brother Dan Corner is the direct cause of my actions. Yes you are the cause of this. Because you tried, with your self righteous attitude toward this brother, to shut him up but I wasn't going to let that impare this brother's clear understanding of the Word to be heard. The end result though is I made the choice to hide Dan's work but not for the reason you are slandering me for. If you want to make a big thing about this to distract off of the main Truth you are more than welcome to, but let the blood be on your hands, because I have let the Truth of God's Word come out in spite of ALL of your attempts to distract. I did not do what I did to bring glory to me but to God's Word You do nothing but continually distract. You don't use the Word. You use your opinions and feelings and experiences as being more important than the Truth of the Word. But yet you say you've pastored and counseled. I struggle with your whole approach due to these things I've mentioned. I'm sure you are well meaning but that accounts for little if it's not the Word that is being exalted or Jesus for that matter.
You are trying to shut me and brother Dan up but you'll never be able snuff out the Light of God's Word. As I have said, I love you in spite of your actions and I continue to forgive you. When have you done this for anyone who disagrees with you?
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Post by biblethumper on May 5, 2006 18:27:02 GMT -5
DARC said: If everyone looks at the bottom of the article I posted here you'll this dc, but not in bold letters. This stands for Dan Corner.I don't have anything to hide. (Thread: Questions For Arminians)
DARC said: The end result though is I made the choice to hide Dan's work but not for the reason you are slandering me for. (Thread: Eternal Security For The Believer)
DARC said: Yes, I have posted some of Dan Corner's material here without saying it. I have no excuse. (Thread: Eternal Security For The Believer)
Darc, you're forgiven.
I do wonder, though, how someone believing you can lose your Salvation could be so sinful?
I mean, here you are WARNING PEOPLE that liars are hell-bound, then you admit to BEING ONE.
Amazing.
That, and I don't care what the Pope says, is a definate symptom of a seared conscience.
You're on dangerous ground, and I exhort you to repent.
I can be called names, told I'm unloving and a thousand other insults.
I was given this understanding on you (see "personal responses to someone" thread) for a reason: I believe (1) either God has exposed you as a reprobate or (2) you are being given the Gift of Repentance which addeth no sorrow.
The choice is your's, darc.
Choose ye this day.
Who will you serve?
Simply repent and change your ways.
Jesus is there, brother.
Dan
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Post by darcfollowingjesus on May 6, 2006 8:07:55 GMT -5
Re: Question for Arminians « Reply #10 on Today at 8:01 » -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I spoke with my dear friend and brother in Christ Dan Corner and I let him know everything that is going on. I gave him a link to this message board so he can examine all my words I have spoken. This what I wrote him... QUOTE Brother Dan,
Greetings in the name of Jesus.
First I must confess that I used some of your material on a "message board" in which I was refuting OSAS, which I didn't come out and say it was from you. Brother my heart and conscience are clear in front of the Lord. I didn't do anything out of glory seeking.
In the beginning of this message boarding a few weeks ago I attached links to your articles on Post Trib Rapture on my messages that I would leave for the others to read in a debate about when the rapture would occur. When I did this there came some very heavy persecution toward me because I listen to you. The slander that also went on and continues to go against you and your ministry is of a very wicked sort. They say some very mean things about you and anyone that agrees with you.
One of the main leaders of this slanderous behavior is a man named Dan Lirette and goes by the screen name "biblethumper". He is a staunch OSAS proponent. During his rebuttals toward me when I would use a link to one of your articles he would call you a liar, and many other things.
Brother Dan, please forgive me. I meant no harm to you as this man may is saying, nor was I looking for any credit. To God be all the glory. Amen
This is the link to the message boards>>> openairoutreach.proboards52.com/index.cgi
the two threads I have been most active in are "The Rapture" and "Eternal Security For The Believer"
In Jesus, Darc Now I QUOTE him... "Brother Darc:
Greetings in Jesus' name.
Please do NOT be troubled. You need to be commended. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK. You are right about Dan L. He emailed us and tried to cause trouble for you. He doesn't know we are your dear friends! Please KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK DOING WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN. You are making the devil and his children mad."My conscience is clean and clear as I stand before my Lord and Savior Jesus. There was never and isn't any glory seeking going on as is being implied. My posts and words will speak for themself. "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? Matt. 7:1-3
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Post by biblethumper on May 6, 2006 9:30:55 GMT -5
I could but will not post Corner's response, though I will hold on file and send to anyone who wants it. I knew you'd write him as soon as I notifed you that I myself had written; I also believed you would seek to brown nose Dan Corner in the attepmt at appeasing your own seared conscience, and I was again correct. Dan Corner was upset at you, Darc...I'm not sure what you said to Mr. Corner in order to appease him and your seared conscience, but the initial reply I have from Corner, along with the posted three statements by YOU show me that you're a hypocrite. And no, Darc, I'm not going to take another week and write rebuttals to you; I am convinced you're false convert. Dan Corner did not speak of you as a "dear friend" or someone who gave you permission to steal his work... as a matter of fact, you yourself said you took it, hid it and you have no excuse; you only changed your tune after writing Corner and though I'm not sure what kick you get out of lying and then seeking appeasement to your conscience for sin, it's apparent you're a reprobate or at best a false convert. I knew, darc, and I believe that if anyone takes even a glimpse at your statements PRE Corner email they will see as I did almost a week ago What boggles my mind is how you can blatantly lie and not be convicted over such evil. I see there is no possible way to see your conscience return to it's sensitive state without a miracle, it appears; thus, like I said, I won't write rebuttals all week, as I know that the only thing a seared conscience would do is seek to debate endlessly on why it's NOT seared; you CANNOT "not" seek to prove to others that you are of God because a seared conscience will never admit it, because it's natuir eis to lie. Hence, I leave with this: DARC said: If everyone looks at the bottom of the article I posted here you'll this dc, but not in bold letters. This stands for Dan Corner.I don't have anything to hide. (Thread: Questions For Arminians) DARC said: The end result though is I made the choice to hide Dan's work but not for the reason you are slandering me for. (Thread: Eternal Security For The Believer) DARC said: Yes, I have posted some of Dan Corner's material here without saying it. I have no excuse. (Thread: Eternal Security For The Believer)
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Post by evanschaible on May 6, 2006 11:13:00 GMT -5
BibleThumper,
Good eyes brother. I love it. I dont believe in eternal security, never have, but I love it when people are found out.
Darc,
That wasnt anything against you, but I would, if I were you, examnine the way that you handle your posts. Simply write at the end....-Dan Corner.
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Post by biblethumper on May 6, 2006 14:13:43 GMT -5
Amen Evan!
It's odd that many of us are not afraid to come against those who we don;t KNOW or INTERACT WITH on a daily basis, yet when it comes "close to home' there are many who cry "don't judge!", "you're divisive!" blah blah blah.
If we're not afraid to expose sin and false converts and backsliders "from a distance" then God forbid that we should be ashamed to declare the same "right at home".
There are three groups who oppose this:
1- The lost 2- The Lukewarm/Backslidden 3- Reprobates who have blasphemed the Holy Spirit
Amen!
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Post by darcfollowingjesus on May 6, 2006 15:52:01 GMT -5
It doesn't matter to me that any of you guys, who want to "find sin in the camp," believe what you believe about what you say I have done. I love each one of you and I forgive you of this slander. You really don't know me or Dan Corner.
I will state it again. Because of your outright hatred for the man Dan Corner is the reason I "went underground" with some of his work. Please get this. I did not lie about this because I was never asked about it.
I forgive everyone of you for your hatred of my dear christian brother Dan Corner. I forgive you for slamming the door on the truth of the word that is so clear but so readily rejected. To call me a false convert is nice, real nice and so very slanderous. None of you know me. None of you. You don't know how I live my life. You don't know the level of holiness I live, nor do you know the measure of my faith and trust in the blood of Jesus I have. You don't have a clue what took place three years ago, because if you did you quickly repent of your acussations that I am a false convert and ask me to forgive you. Jesus Christ has set me free from all the sin in my life from porn addiction to blasphemy of God's name to sexual immorality, to smoking and drinking etc., etc., etc.. The Lord Jesus has totally re-gened me. I have been set free from a condemning spirit, an attitude of hatred and lying. (You could call me a heathen that worships the Devil) and I would still love you and forgive you. I hate what you are doing, because you do it in ignorance and it doesn't even bother you.
If the shoe fits here then wear it. I am only speaking to a select few hate-mongers. Please stop throwing around words, stirring up strife and looking to see who you can fry.
Jesus Christ never did the kind of things that are going on here and yet we all just throw our words around, not caring what they do to the other person on the receiving end nor do we even give it any thought that we will be held accountable for them on that Last Day. It's as if we don't even think about the fact that we are supposed to be becoming more and more like Him. I would like anyone on these boards, who considers themself a Christian, to show me where Jesus acted like this and said things like this.
If you want to get behind this man and form a linch mob, then I want to let you know before you decide to do that, to look at the concequences before acting. Because once those words go out they can't be retrieved or taken back. We have the words of life or death on each one of our tongues.
In Jesus, Darc
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Post by Jules on May 6, 2006 16:04:55 GMT -5
Dan, you mentioned that Calvinists seem to be more "holy" in practice than Arminians. I haven't studied Reformed Tehology for long, but that too is my impression wholeheartedly since leaving the Arminian teachings. I saw much frustration, hypocrisy and lukewarmness in all the Arminians I have met. IN fact, the ONLY Arminians I have met that BREAK THAT MOLD are my brothers and sisters here who are all evangelistic and many teach holiness. Both of which would prevent hypocrisy, lukewarmness, etc. So by far, this board is the exception.
Although hyper-Calvinists abuse grace as much (if not more) than many Arminians. Hyper-Calvinists know and understand they are totally depraved yet they somehow claim some higher status because they are chosen. These are worse than the Arminians who simply take credit for tehir salvation more than they should. So therefore, hyper-Calvinists know better and go further in plundering GOd's grace. In my opinion...
Arminians are frustrated, miserable, pathetic and sad to behold. I feel sorry for them, and pray God to open their eyes. The ones that are the worse to behold are those actually seeking God (because He is drawing them) but God has yet to open their eyes...but He will, praise God. But we certainly go through a miserable time in the process, and we can't "speed up" the work of the Holy SPirit in their lives despite the fact that we understand tehir pain and confusion and want nothing more than to give them relief.
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Post by Jules on May 6, 2006 16:08:45 GMT -5
I shake the dust off of my feet and remove myself from responding to you as I see you cannot admit sinful behavior. This is a sorrowful day, darc. I pray God's best for you. I cannot, however, speak with you on any other issue or even on confession...because you have shown disdain for truth by claiming that which was never your own.Posting dc on one article is STILL sneaky and less than honest...you BLATANTLY lied on THIS post and others giving no credit for anything, but again, using Corner as your own. Sinful. That's enough from me now I'm satisfied that the Lord has opened my eyes for a reason. I don't want your head on a platter, or want you to leave or whatever else; what I would have like dis an answer from YOU, without having to copy and paste Corner, and then claiming you gave him credit when you know you did not. Now I will move on. That said, post as you will, say what you will.... but I part company. Dan, OK brother, you've been saying this same thing for days now, more than once. Are you actually going to abide by it? You say you are done with the debate and topic yet you just get right back into it...either argue this in PM's or actually do what you've said you were going to do. This personal arguing is DETRIMENTAL to the entire board brothers! You both have been lovingly asked by several people now to cut it out. No matter who is right and wrong about the doctirne, postings, lying, etc et c etc BOTH of you should be more respectful to the others on this board and not continue these personal attacks on each other. Enough already.
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Post by darcfollowingjesus on May 6, 2006 16:32:04 GMT -5
If one can't lose their salvation and Once Saved Always Save/ Perseverance of the Saints/ Eternal Security is true then why has God the Father, Jesus the Son and the Holy Spirit warned us and commanded us to.... 1 Peter 2:11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul1 Peter 5:8 Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.1 Thes. 5:22 Avoid every kind of evil.1 Tim. 5:22 Lay hands suddenly on no man, neither be partaker of other men's sins: keep thyself pure.James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. 1 Cor 10:7 Neither be ye idolaters1 Cor. 16:13 13Be on your guard; stand firm in the faith2 Cor. 6:17 "Therefore come out from them and be separate, says the Lord. Touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you."Eph 4:26 In your anger do not sin1 Peter 1:15-16 But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; 16for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy."2 Peter 3:14 So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him.Rev. 2:10b Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.Rev. 3:19b So be earnest, and repent. 1 Cor. 6:9-10 Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.Rom. 12:2a Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.Rom. 12:16 Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Do not be conceited.1 Cor 15:33 Do not be misled: "Bad company corrupts good character2 Cor. 6:14-15 Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever?Gal. 6:7-8 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.??and so on and so on. I could literally fill up pages of these kinds of warnings and commands given to the church/saints in the New Testament. (well over 1,000 of them) Which means this is instruction given to brothers and sisters and us after salvation. and all given by the Lord Jesus and His apostles who all taught salvation is by grace and not by worksThe warnings and commands are given to help keep us on the straight and narrow by reverent fear of God and His Word to not become conceited and fall away and to endure to the very end. Not by works or legalism either, just plain obedient faith in Jesus and belief in the whole rest of Scripture given to us that's all.If eternal security were true then it seems like the only command would be "believe" and nothing else would've needed to be said...but that's NOT the case is it? In love and in Jesus, Darc This is a valid question that I would like someone in the OSAS set of people to answer. Let me be clear, as someone who believes in the conditional security of believers, that I don't believe it has anything to do with what I have to do that adds to my salvation, because that is the gift of eternal life from God. The "How" it is accomplished is finished but that doesn't absolve us from that which we are commanded to do to maintain our salvation, as the scriptures I have posted before have spoken to. This seems to be a misunderstanding. NONE OF US WHO BELIEVE IN THE CONDITIONAL SECURITY OF OUR SALVATION OR THAT WE CAN LOSE OUR SALVATION BELIEVE WE ADD ANYTHING TO OUR SALVATION BY DOING ANYTHING.I go back to the question... If eternal security were true then it seems like the only command would be "believe" and nothing else would've needed to be said...but that's NOT the case is it? What do you think?
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