Post by darcfollowingjesus on May 21, 2006 16:24:51 GMT -5
AV said on May 15, 2006: "I take the position "once saved always saved". There is no doubt that the Bible teaches that...True children of God are, according to the Scriptures, forever saved and eternally secure because:
12) God is the one Who has begun the good work in the believer, and He has promised to perform it until the day of Jesus Christ; they are to "work out," not "work for "their salvation (Philippians 1:6; 2:12,13).
The power to will and act are of God who is the Author of both the body and soul and all their powers and energies, but the power of choosing and the act of working come from man. Because God works in us this way Paul exhorts us to work out our own salvation and this shows that the use of the powers of choosing and action belong to us. We can't do God's work and God won't do ours, He won't work out our salvation with fear and trembling. So IF we don't work out our salvation then we put ourselves at risk of falling completely from grace. 2 Peter 3:17
13) They are already living stones in the spiritual building of God of which Christ Himself is the Chief Cornerstone (l Peter 2:5; Ephesians 2:20-22).
14) They are members of the Body of Christ, each with a peculiar function and without each one, the Body would not be complete (l Corinthians 12:12-27).
This true for those abiding in Christ (in the body). But does this speak to one never falling from grace or being "eternally secure"? No. Paul also wrote (Col. 1:21-23) implying that if we don't continue we won't be continually reconciled to God, but it doesn't mean we are "eternally secure". There's a condition to it.
15) They are kept by the power of God, through faith, not through the efforts or the works of the one who is saved. (l Peter 1:5).
"Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." Our salvation is yet to come according to this verse and also in verse 13 "Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;" As long as we endure, working out our salvation, are holy (v15), abstaining from sinful desires (2:11), unto the end we have the hope of salvation that is yet to come. (Titus 3:7)
I can't argue against any of these truths, but does that erase the other truths from God's Word that I've shown here and in the last post, which speak to our responsibility to maintaining our salvation and abiding in Jesus?
To say that once you're saved you're always saved would be to say that after your moment of faith you don't have to do anything to maintain your salvation and that negates most of the NT.
If the commands given to us in the NT don't play any role in the condition of our salvation then why were they written? After all, they were written to believers/Christians, those washed and cleansed in the blood of Jesus. Can you rightfully say none of the some 1000 commands don't speak to the need of us doing something to maintain the gift of salvation given to us? it is very clear to me, so much that I can't understand how you or anyone else that holds the OSAS/Perseverance of the Saints/Eternal Security stance won't see this.
The true grace message is: Eph. 2:8,9 and Gal. 5:2-4; 1 Cor. 15:2; Titus 3:7; Rom. 2:7 and Gal. 6:9 Will you reason with me in any of these truths?
12) God is the one Who has begun the good work in the believer, and He has promised to perform it until the day of Jesus Christ; they are to "work out," not "work for "their salvation (Philippians 1:6; 2:12,13).
The power to will and act are of God who is the Author of both the body and soul and all their powers and energies, but the power of choosing and the act of working come from man. Because God works in us this way Paul exhorts us to work out our own salvation and this shows that the use of the powers of choosing and action belong to us. We can't do God's work and God won't do ours, He won't work out our salvation with fear and trembling. So IF we don't work out our salvation then we put ourselves at risk of falling completely from grace. 2 Peter 3:17
13) They are already living stones in the spiritual building of God of which Christ Himself is the Chief Cornerstone (l Peter 2:5; Ephesians 2:20-22).
14) They are members of the Body of Christ, each with a peculiar function and without each one, the Body would not be complete (l Corinthians 12:12-27).
This true for those abiding in Christ (in the body). But does this speak to one never falling from grace or being "eternally secure"? No. Paul also wrote (Col. 1:21-23) implying that if we don't continue we won't be continually reconciled to God, but it doesn't mean we are "eternally secure". There's a condition to it.
15) They are kept by the power of God, through faith, not through the efforts or the works of the one who is saved. (l Peter 1:5).
"Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." Our salvation is yet to come according to this verse and also in verse 13 "Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;" As long as we endure, working out our salvation, are holy (v15), abstaining from sinful desires (2:11), unto the end we have the hope of salvation that is yet to come. (Titus 3:7)
I can't argue against any of these truths, but does that erase the other truths from God's Word that I've shown here and in the last post, which speak to our responsibility to maintaining our salvation and abiding in Jesus?
To say that once you're saved you're always saved would be to say that after your moment of faith you don't have to do anything to maintain your salvation and that negates most of the NT.
If the commands given to us in the NT don't play any role in the condition of our salvation then why were they written? After all, they were written to believers/Christians, those washed and cleansed in the blood of Jesus. Can you rightfully say none of the some 1000 commands don't speak to the need of us doing something to maintain the gift of salvation given to us? it is very clear to me, so much that I can't understand how you or anyone else that holds the OSAS/Perseverance of the Saints/Eternal Security stance won't see this.
The true grace message is: Eph. 2:8,9 and Gal. 5:2-4; 1 Cor. 15:2; Titus 3:7; Rom. 2:7 and Gal. 6:9 Will you reason with me in any of these truths?