|
Post by cervyy on Sept 10, 2006 17:23:40 GMT -5
Was it Lot who lost his entire family and was laid on a sick bed and said, "the Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away...blessed be the name of the Lord". Some day maybe God will lay your wife on a sick bed?? Will you see your need for Him then?? And you know death was brought into the world by sin. Not God... According to you, God sounds like one of those protection guys. You know, the ones who threaten to beat you up and trash your store unless you pay them money for "protection." Understand why Dale is NOT going bow down before your "God" with what you just said. His need for Him because God killed his wife. I don't even wants tol worship this God.
|
|
|
Post by oap001 on Sept 10, 2006 17:46:12 GMT -5
Was it Lot who lost his entire family and was laid on a sick bed and said, "the Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away...blessed be the name of the Lord". Some day maybe God will lay your wife on a sick bed?? Will you see your need for Him then?? And you know death was brought into the world by sin. Not God... According to you, God sounds like one of those protection guys. You know, the ones who threaten to beat you up and trash your store unless you pay them money for "protection." Understand why Dale is NOT going bow down before your "God" with what you just said. His need for Him because God killed his wife. I don't even wants tol worship this God. Sin was brought into this world by Satan. Who was thrown out of heaven. Adam and Eve sinned and thus we live in a fallen world. God, in His mercy has sent His Son as a cover for our sins. We will all give an account to God on judgment day on what we have done with Jesus. Have we rested on Him or not. Regardless, as a result of the condition of our world, trials will come. In heaven there will be no death because there will be no sin. As for me...I have chose to follow Jesus. You must make your choice....God will not force you to do right. However, I wouldn't want to be without Him. It's up to you....
|
|
|
Post by oap001 on Sept 10, 2006 18:04:01 GMT -5
Firstly, I think there are a lot of people like you out there. You didn't grow up in a Christian home. Yes, I did. My mother was a Southern Baptist, as is every other member of her side of the family. My father's side lives in Florida and we never speak to them (whole 'nother story). He completely defers to my mother as far as the religious discussion goes, partially 'cos he doesn't give a rat's rear and partially 'cos he doesn't want a fight (good decision, IMO; my mom can be really hard to deal with on religion). I grew up going to Sunday school every week until I was seven and told them I didn't want to go any more. I'm around the Baptist faith every day, when I'm at home, and completely go along with it, especially in the presence of the young children in our family. I'm not out to start fights. I won't comment on Catholicism versus Protestantism versus etc. They're all different variations on the same theme in my eyes. Do I feel free? No, of course not. I'm not even free to have a credit card in my name. =P Am I free from religion? Yes. It hasn't haunted me for over four years. More questions are welcome. I find it hard to believe that your mother is a Christian and or that you have been raised with a clear presentation of the Gospel.
|
|
|
Post by oap001 on Sept 10, 2006 18:05:23 GMT -5
It sounds to me that you were raised like my wife. Who was taught to fear God without ever being told about grace.
|
|
|
Post by valentine on Sept 10, 2006 18:10:18 GMT -5
Let's not assume things about my mom, kthx. I told you what religion she is--how 'bout you believe it? (Also, I have no idea where you gleaned the knowledge that my mom isn't a Christian, since basically all I said about her, period, is that she was.)
|
|
|
Post by oap001 on Sept 10, 2006 18:22:33 GMT -5
Let's not assume things about my mom, kthx. I told you what religion she is--how 'bout you believe it? (Also, I have no idea where you gleaned the knowledge that my mom isn't a Christian, since basically all I said about her, period, is that she was.) Because, being a liberal Baptist does not make someone a Christian. How would you (or she) explain that your mother became a Christian..when..how??
|
|
|
Post by dale on Sept 10, 2006 20:52:32 GMT -5
1. Valentine, you will notice these people assume a lot. Interetsing post from micah on another thread where he seems to think any many with a high puitched voice is a possible homosexual. This was a stupid statement, even from a street preacher.
2.Sorry patriot, but once again you take the wrong approach in delaing with someone like me. Chevy there (yes, yes, i know i am mispronouncing it) beat me to the punch. Love your concept of God as Tony Soprano extorting and threatenign people intow orhsipping him. The whol;e theory is moronic. God wants people toc ome toh im by their own free will, right? But if you don;'t, he'll break you until you do. Some free will.
This tyrant king type of god, this spiritual thug, this divine egotist floating around up there in heaven, just isn;t for me. If you want to believe in him and think he is wodnerful, suit yourself. Nope, the whole concept does nothing for me. Then again, i am glad I am not compelled to believe in this god of yours and see him as nothing but modern mythol;ogy. I just fail to see what you see in him that is so great, especially under the conditiosn you just described a few posts ago. Is it because you fear him that you are worsjipping him>? Reminds me of a little kid being scared of a big boogeyman in the closet that doesn;t exist.
Sorry,m but your god has no redeeming features i can see.
Whoever dreamed him up could have done a better job.. .
|
|
|
Post by dale on Sept 10, 2006 21:03:37 GMT -5
Likewise, do we really need to discuss the absurdity of the idea of everyoine being a sinner because of Adam and Eve. This is ridiculous. An insane concept from an insane god. Again, whoever thought up this character could have beena bit more creative and a bit more rational.
|
|
|
Post by oap001 on Sept 10, 2006 21:38:55 GMT -5
Storms will come......who will you call on and will He hear you??
|
|
abb
Full Member
Posts: 163
|
Post by abb on Sept 11, 2006 0:34:10 GMT -5
Hey man, Satan is an IDEA not a character.
It's the idea behind satan that is significant in this fairy tale, not the creature.
|
|
abb
Full Member
Posts: 163
|
Post by abb on Sept 11, 2006 0:35:52 GMT -5
How would that matter? If the evidence towards god was so pervasive, being biased towards Jesus since birth wouldn't matter....
But the trend seems to go against that; many who are raised as christians end up being the most militant atheists ever.
|
|
|
Post by oap001 on Sept 11, 2006 3:14:54 GMT -5
It's not about being biased towards Jesus. It's a matter of trusting Christ as savior. It doesn't appear that this message was presented in that home.
She was presented with a works based salvation and made her feel that she had no worth.
She had a Catholic father who, apparently, belied the Word of God and a mother who was legalistic and not saved.
Val, Did your mom, ever tell you God's plan of salvation? Or did she just give you a bunch of rules?
|
|
|
Post by cervyy on Sept 11, 2006 5:59:01 GMT -5
Storms will come......who will you call on and will He hear you?? You mean the same sorms Jesus sends to you?? And you guys are safe because you already paid your protection money. Using threats like "storms" isn't a good tactic you know. Doesn't the Bible say good things will happen to both good and bad people? Meaning, even if you Pach are striken with ... the plague because there's an outbreak, you could still die from it. Even IF you pray and were the best little "Christian" you could be, bad things (like death) could still happen to you. And then say Val got the plague too, but survived!! And she didn't pray, it was just a good thing that happened to her. You don't need your "God" to go and run to if you have the emotional support of friends and family. You don't need your "God" if you can handle stresful situations well. Threatening us with storms just doesn't work.
|
|
|
Post by valentine on Sept 11, 2006 8:25:16 GMT -5
She was presented with a works based salvation and made her feel that she had no worth. And the conclusions that I drew as a result of that were wrong. I went the other way on the spectrum and that wasn't good of me. It wasn't being a nice human being, let alone being a critical thinker looking for answers. What can I say? I was hurt, and was displacing that hurt because I didn't know what else to do with it. The I got the hang of sublimation. Dad's not Catholic, again. He was raised Catholic, but is now a militant atheist. You don't know my mother, and you will not say things about what's going to happen to her after she dies. Please and thank you. Seriously, I'm fine with y'all flinging whatever you want onto me, but keep my family out of it, okay? I can do the whole loving of your parents thing without needing to look it up that a book tells me I should. I have problems with a lot of what both my parents think, but it's their right to think it and I do respect it. I expect you to do the same. As a matter of fact, she did. So did the people at Sunday School. I laughed and then thought, "...Oh. She was serious. Holy crap, my mom's gone insane." At the end of the day, I just didn't believe it. It was too fantastical for me. I'm a very rational person--and was so even as a kid--if they couldn't prove something like that, I wasn't accepting it. Until finally when I was like, "This is stupid. I'm not going anymore." You don't need your "God" to go and run to if you have the emotional support of friends and family. You don't need your "God" if you can handle stresful situations well. Eeeexactly. S/he/it/they can send all the storms s/he/it/they please--and if that was truly the cause of said storms, I daresay that god(s) has/have done a fantastic job of it, because there have been storms. I think I told you about one in my story. But I've always managed to come out the better. In difficult situations say to myself, "Katie, you've gotten through X, Y, and Z. This is no different. You can do it. Today's the day. Let's get busy." I've learned to rely on myself, mostly because god never helped me when I needed him to, but I've always been there for me. Praying that a situation will be resolved never quite had the same effect as me getting off my behind, rolling up my sleeves, gritting my teeth and resolving it. So yeah, god. Life's tough, but I'm tougher. You will have to do better than that. And with that, I'm off to face yet another storm. See ya! PS: And ironically, the song "Lord I Hope This Day is Good" was on my away message last night. Particularly the part about "send down the thunder, lord, send down the rain." ::giggle:: PSS: But I think Jo Dee Messina said it better: "Tomorrow's another day, and I'm thirsty anyway, so bring on the rain."
|
|
|
Post by cervyy on Sept 11, 2006 8:33:11 GMT -5
It is sad when you need the support of the God that is crushing you with one of Their storms, no?
|
|
|
Post by valentine on Sept 11, 2006 8:37:52 GMT -5
It is sad when you need the support of the God that is crushing you with one of Their storms, no? Yeah, I think I'd be inherently distrustful of anyone who said to me, "Get my insurance, and then I promise that you may-or-may-not be safe from the hurricane I'll be flinging on your city next week!" Me: Umm...kay. Think I'll take my chances with my hammer and nails.
|
|
|
Post by dale on Sept 11, 2006 8:54:34 GMT -5
Hey, let's all build an aek of our own!!!!!!!!!!
|
|
|
Post by oap001 on Sept 11, 2006 14:36:00 GMT -5
Storms will come......who will you call on and will He hear you?? You mean the same sorms Jesus sends to you?? And you guys are safe because you already paid your protection money. Using threats like "storms" isn't a good tactic you know. Doesn't the Bible say good things will happen to both good and bad people? Meaning, even if you Pach are striken with ... the plague because there's an outbreak, you could still die from it. Even IF you pray and were the best little "Christian" you could be, bad things (like death) could still happen to you. And then say Val got the plague too, but survived!! And she didn't pray, it was just a good thing that happened to her. You don't need your "God" to go and run to if you have the emotional support of friends and family. You don't need your "God" if you can handle stresful situations well. Threatening us with storms just doesn't work. For the Christian, to die is gain. All is for the Glory of God. Bad things will happen to us all...no matter if we are saved or not. Remember when Jesus rose Laserath (sp?) from the dead. He said this will be done for the glory of God. I'm willing to live out my life and allow people to see what happens to me and how God works in my life and the great things He does thru my trials....so they can see who God really is. Do you trust God like that??
|
|
|
Post by cervyy on Sept 11, 2006 14:40:11 GMT -5
Like you said, God'll do sh*tty things to saved and unsaved alike in life. Why should they trust Him with the afterlife??
Dieing is only a gain if you waste your life worshipping something. ENTIRE life, being key. If all was for the glory of God we would all automatically be stricken with the aweosmeness of God and submit. Now, is that how it happens??
|
|
|
Post by oap001 on Sept 11, 2006 14:41:15 GMT -5
She was presented with a works based salvation and made her feel that she had no worth. And the conclusions that I drew as a result of that were wrong. I went the other way on the spectrum and that wasn't good of me. It wasn't being a nice human being, let alone being a critical thinker looking for answers. What can I say? I was hurt, and was displacing that hurt because I didn't know what else to do with it. The I got the hang of sublimation. Dad's not Catholic, again. He was raised Catholic, but is now a militant atheist. You don't know my mother, and you will not say things about what's going to happen to her after she dies. Please and thank you. Seriously, I'm fine with y'all flinging whatever you want onto me, but keep my family out of it, okay? I can do the whole loving of your parents thing without needing to look it up that a book tells me I should. I have problems with a lot of what both my parents think, but it's their right to think it and I do respect it. I expect you to do the same. As a matter of fact, she did. So did the people at Sunday School. I laughed and then thought, "...Oh. She was serious. Holy crap, my mom's gone insane." At the end of the day, I just didn't believe it. It was too fantastical for me. I'm a very rational person--and was so even as a kid--if they couldn't prove something like that, I wasn't accepting it. Until finally when I was like, "This is stupid. I'm not going anymore." You don't need your "God" to go and run to if you have the emotional support of friends and family. You don't need your "God" if you can handle stresful situations well. Eeeexactly. S/he/it/they can send all the storms s/he/it/they please--and if that was truly the cause of said storms, I daresay that god(s) has/have done a fantastic job of it, because there have been storms. I think I told you about one in my story. But I've always managed to come out the better. In difficult situations say to myself, "Katie, you've gotten through X, Y, and Z. This is no different. You can do it. Today's the day. Let's get busy." I've learned to rely on myself, mostly because god never helped me when I needed him to, but I've always been there for me. Praying that a situation will be resolved never quite had the same effect as me getting off my behind, rolling up my sleeves, gritting my teeth and resolving it. So yeah, god. Life's tough, but I'm tougher. You will have to do better than that. And with that, I'm off to face yet another storm. See ya! PS: And ironically, the song "Lord I Hope This Day is Good" was on my away message last night. Particularly the part about "send down the thunder, lord, send down the rain." ::giggle:: PSS: But I think Jo Dee Messina said it better: "Tomorrow's another day, and I'm thirsty anyway, so bring on the rain." The final storm is death. Would you have peace with God on your death bed?? Wouldn't you need Him then??
|
|
|
Post by oap001 on Sept 11, 2006 14:43:15 GMT -5
Like you said, God'll do sh*tty things to saved and unsaved alike in life. Why should they trust Him with the afterlife?? Dieing is only a gain if you waste your life worshipping something. ENTIRE life, being key. If all was for the glory of God we would all automatically be stricken with the aweosmeness of God and submit. Now, is that how it happens?? I understand that my sufferings have eternal value in bringing Glory to God. I love Him...and have given my life to that end.
|
|
|
Post by oap001 on Sept 11, 2006 14:45:14 GMT -5
A believer has all the promises of God and peace and assurance. No matter what trial they face.
Also, one last point, Val's upbringing was not Christian....it just wasn't. Chrisitanity is not works based.
|
|
|
Post by cervyy on Sept 11, 2006 14:46:47 GMT -5
Does your "suffering" include taking away people's God given free will?? Does bringing glory to God include taking away the free will God gave??
|
|
|
Post by dale on Sept 11, 2006 14:53:36 GMT -5
The tyrant king god of the christians reminds me of one of those deranged idiot gods from the Lovecraft novels like Yog Sathoth or Hastur or something. They seem to operate along the same lines.
Plus the god of the christians and the gods of the Lovecraft novels do have something in common,. They are both fiction.
|
|
|
Post by valentine on Sept 11, 2006 16:21:53 GMT -5
Yeah, nice one-line response to my one-page post, Pacp. There's not a lot to say to that, honestly. "WELL WELL WHEN YOU DIE YOU WILL NEED GOD SO THERE!!11" When I die, I will die, and we'll see who was right. No, I don't want to die. At all. Yes, I fear death. But there's not all that much I can do about it, now is there? So, we'll see who's right. But in the meantime, I have seventy or so years to be the best human being I can possibly be, and I'm going to keep on with the good works if it's all the same to you. Quite honestly, I've always found that "faith alone" crap an excuse not to do any work 'cos god will love you if you believe X, Y, and Z. =P
I find it so much fun to go to Science vs Religion and come back to look at you guys. Let's just say that it's a veeeery different environment.
|
|
|
Post by oap001 on Sept 11, 2006 16:30:31 GMT -5
Yeah, nice one-line response to my one-page post, Pacp. There's not a lot to say to that, honestly. "WELL WELL WHEN YOU DIE YOU WILL NEED GOD SO THERE!!11" When I die, I will die, and we'll see who was right. No, I don't want to die. At all. Yes, I fear death. But there's not all that much I can do about it, now is there? So, we'll see who's right. But in the meantime, I have seventy or so years to be the best human being I can possibly be, and I'm going to keep on with the good works if it's all the same to you. Quite honestly, I've always found that "faith alone" crap an excuse not to do any work 'cos god will love you if you believe X, Y, and Z. =P I find it so much fun to go to Science vs Religion and come back to look at you guys. Let's just say that it's a veeeery different environment. I don't fear death because I know that I will see my loved ones on the other side. You have no such assurance. By faith are you saved thru grace. It is a gift of God. All your works are like filthy rags. Val, God would turn his head from you on judgment day and not even look at you. With all your pride....and self righteousness On the cross when Jesus suffered and died for lost sinners. He said, "my God..my God why have you forsaken me". It's because of Jesus blood being credited to my sin account that I am made right in the eyes of God. Jesus paid it ALL!!!
|
|
|
Post by oap001 on Sept 11, 2006 16:35:23 GMT -5
The tyrant king god of the christians reminds me of one of those deranged idiot gods from the Lovecraft novels like Yog Sathoth or Hastur or something. They seem to operate along the same lines. Plus the god of the christians and the gods of the Lovecraft novels do have something in common,. They are both fiction. And your a lot like Aliester Crowley. A man who was the father of modern satanism and said he was the forerunner to the anti-christ. Aliester Crowley is without a doubt, the main spiritual "teacher" of rock music. Crowley's mission in life was to destroy Jesus Christ and Christianity, while exalting sex perversion, drugs, magick and Satan. Aliester Crowley spews his hatred of Jesus Christ in The World's Tragedy: " I do not wish to argue that the doctrines of Jesus, they and they alone, have degraded the world to it's present condition. I take it that Christianity is not only the cause but the symptom of slavery." (Aleister Crowley, The World's Tragedy, p. XXXIX) "That religion they call Christianity; the devil they honor they call God. I accept these definitions, as a poet must do, if he is to be at all intelligible to his age, and it is their God and their religion that I HATE and will DESTROY." (Aleister Crowley, The World's Tragedy, p. XXXI) In the introduction of The World's Tragedy, Israel Regardie says: "This long, almost epic poem is one of the most bitter and vicious diatribes against Christianity that I have ever read." Crowley's most famous teaching, " Do what thou wilt shalt be the whole of the law" became the "mantra" of the 60's revolution of drugs, sexual perversion and anti-Christianity. "Do your own thing" — "If it feels good do it".
|
|
|
Post by oap001 on Sept 11, 2006 16:39:32 GMT -5
It's strande Val that you used the words "critical thinking". A concept that was conceived by 60's era flunkies to make people question Christianity. But then how would you know what Christianity is?? Hey...if it "feels good". Ya right....
|
|
|
Post by oap001 on Sept 11, 2006 16:49:30 GMT -5
Yeah, nice one-line response to my one-page post, Pacp. There's not a lot to say to that, honestly. "WELL WELL WHEN YOU DIE YOU WILL NEED GOD SO THERE!!11" When I die, I will die, and we'll see who was right. No, I don't want to die. At all. Yes, I fear death. But there's not all that much I can do about it, now is there? So, we'll see who's right. But in the meantime, I have seventy or so years to be the best human being I can possibly be, and I'm going to keep on with the good works if it's all the same to you. Quite honestly, I've always found that "faith alone" crap an excuse not to do any work 'cos god will love you if you believe X, Y, and Z. =P I find it so much fun to go to Science vs Religion and come back to look at you guys. Let's just say that it's a veeeery different environment. One more thing...in regards to good works. A person must be redeamed to Christ. Living holy is very..very important. But he gives grace.
|
|
|
Post by oap001 on Sept 11, 2006 20:56:42 GMT -5
Poor Anna, she has no assurance that she will ever see her son again. What a terrible thing to greive under this heavy weight. Seek the Lord while He may be found.
Smith's Son Died During Hospital Visit Sep 11 4:21 PM US/Eastern By JESSICA ROBERTSON Associated Press Writer
NASSAU, Bahamas
The 20-year-old son of Anna Nicole Smith died while visiting his mother in the hospital where the reality TV star and former Playboy playmate had given birth last week, a Bahamas police official said Monday. Daniel Wayne Smith died Sunday at Doctors' Hospital in Nassau, Reginald Ferguson, assistant commissioner of the Royal Bahamian Police Force, said in an interview with The Associated Press. He said an autopsy was under way.
Anna Nicole Smith, 38, gave birth to a healthy 6-pound, 9-ounce girl at the hospital Thursday, her Web site said.
"Anna Nicole is absolutely devastated by the loss of her son. He was her pride and joy and an amazing human being," a statement on the site said. It said that drugs or alcohol were not believed to be a factor.
Her son had traveled to the Caribbean country "to share in the joy of his baby sister," the statement said. "Please do not make any press inquiries at this time so that Anna Nicole can grieve in peace."
Daniel Smith was the product of Smith's 1985 marriage to Billy Smith. The couple, who met while working together at Jim's Krispy Fried Chicken in Mexia, Texas, divorced in 1987.
The son had small roles in her movies "Skyscraper" and "To the Limit."
Robin Bonnema, a spokeswoman for Trimspa, the diet products company that has been endorsed by Smith, said she did not know the name of the baby girl's father.
Smith married Texas oil tycoon J. Howard Marshall II in 1994, when she was 26 and he was 89. He died the following year. Since then, she has feuded with Marshall's son, Pierce Marshall, over her entitlement to the tycoon's estate.
In the long-running dispute, Smith had won a $474 million judgment, which was later cut to about $89 million and eventually reduced to zero. In May, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the Smith could continue to pursue the fortune in federal courts in California despite a Texas state court ruling that Marshall's youngest son was the sole heir.
|
|