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Post by victorialewis on Sept 20, 2006 18:42:46 GMT -5
The wages of sin is death, Cervy......even those of us who God has graciously saved will die someday.
6Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
7Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
Isaiah 55:6,7
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Post by victorialewis on Sept 20, 2006 20:40:25 GMT -5
Note: I just modified my post written earlier at 7:09 pm
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Post by oap001 on Sept 20, 2006 21:44:09 GMT -5
*struts around with his nose held high* Oh, look at me everyone!! I'm so very righteous!! I'm going to heaven too and you're not!! That was my impersination of the "Christians" here. That impression is false. No Christian is "self righteous". We know that we need "Christ's righteousness". Your the ones that measure one and other by your own slef righteousness. What one of you guys said something about being a good person? The fact is...none of us are good people.
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Post by cervyy on Sept 21, 2006 4:26:54 GMT -5
The wages of sin is death, Cervy......even those of us who God has graciously saved will die someday. 6Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: 7Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. Isaiah 55:6,7 But if that other one of you was right (and I really wich I could remember who said it) then God didn't give them a chance to repent because Katrina was an act to kill the wicked in New Orleans. You would want me to bow down beofre this God? Where he kills all those people instead of maybe sending some sort of miracle that saves them all or something else moraculous? Hmmm, a vengeful God or a loving God ... what a decision.
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Post by cervyy on Sept 21, 2006 4:30:18 GMT -5
*struts around with his nose held high* Oh, look at me everyone!! I'm so very righteous!! I'm going to heaven too and you're not!! That was my impersination of the "Christians" here. That impression is false. No Christian is "self righteous". We know that we need "Christ's righteousness". Your the ones that measure one and other by your own slef righteousness. What one of you guys said something about being a good person? The fact is...none of us are good people. Duh, I already know you're not good people. You ridicule and call the "heathens" of names, not very Christ-like at all. And if the rest of them aren't good people, then the others shouldn't go around pointing out the bad qualities in others when they themselves aren't good either. That sounds pretty self righteous to me. And have you seen Miles or Jesse preach? They get up higher then everyone else and get little smirks on their mouths. Not humble people at all
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Post by victorialewis on Sept 21, 2006 6:52:27 GMT -5
How many years should God give us in order to repent? 15? 20? 50? 70? During each day of those years, sinners heap more and more wrath upon their heads.... I believe God is very long-suffering, but then you and I have perspectives which are diametrically opposed.
I think He's been pretty long-suffering with you, Cervy, but someday your life will end. And the greatest tragedy of your life will be if you are found still shaking your fist at God. Because, as Leonard Ravenhill has said before, there are a million roads into Hell, but not one out.
Repent, and humble yourself, Cervy, because Jesus Christ IS your Lord whether you acknowledge Him or not. Scripture tells us that one day, at the Judgment Seat:
For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Romans 14:11,12
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Post by cervyy on Sept 21, 2006 7:01:36 GMT -5
Victoria, its God, 100 years of someone waiting to repent on their deathbed are nothing to him. He's God, such a small time would be meaningless to him. NOW YOU, see someone who's been sinning for 30 years and think that's a LONG TIME! But you're not God, because would not for God 30 years be mere seconds, if that?
So I ask you again, for a being in which time means nothing, why would be enact such vengence ON PURPOSE? He HAD to kill all those people? Oh ya, I'm SOO gonna humble myself for your God.
Explain to me then how God became impaitent with them not repenting? Doesn't sound like an all-powerful God to me. (Thanks for another reason why I hate your fake God. Coming to this site has really been eye-opening for me)
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Post by dale on Sept 21, 2006 8:23:19 GMT -5
Their God carries the same characteristics as The Patriot and the other people slinging Christ like kids in a snowball fight on this board. If you do not hear THEIR message you have blasphemed the holy sporoit and are lost. Note The Patriot who has finally given up on me (Thank God! (tonguein cheek). Maybe if you resist him for a bit more, he will atc like that spoiled little kid saying "I don;t want to play in your yard, I don;t like you any more" and dry up with you too. Or note that other guy who called me a sower of strife and said maybe Jesus wouldn;t save me after all now. Or Evan and his do this and do that, like I am gonna take orders form some 20 year old kid, come on! Note how easy they quit, note how they put limitations on their supposedly all powerful tyrant king god and note how they react when their message is rejected.
With this peculiar breed of Christian ypu see here, it tends not to be about us and our seeing the light so to speak, but about them, brownie points for them in heaven and their doing things to make themsel;ves look good in the eyes of their god. I hope there is an afterlife, totally unlike the one they present and they find out how they, themselves, have fouled up
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Post by dale on Sept 21, 2006 8:26:09 GMT -5
PS, note how the christians like to divert the issue. This is supposed to be a thread for sharing their/our stories.
Incidently, note how few of the Christians have actually taken the time form presaching to do so. Very few and even when the bulk of them do, they have to turn it into a sermon.
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Post by victorialewis on Sept 21, 2006 19:56:55 GMT -5
cervy and dale,
I'm shaking the dust off my feet with regard to giving you two any more of God's Holy Word. You blaspheme Him regularly and with impunity. God will not be mocked, and you will pay the price one day. Your sins will be exposed, and you will run out of flippant and foolish remarks. I tremble for you both.
Victoria
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Post by oap001 on Sept 21, 2006 20:36:17 GMT -5
cervy and dale, I'm shaking the dust off my feet with regard to giving you two any more of God's Holy Word. You blaspheme Him regularly and with impunity. God will not be mocked, and you will pay the price one day. Your sins will be exposed, and you will run out of flippant and foolish remarks. I tremble for you both. Victoria Amen....so be it. There is a price for mocking God. It says in the Bible that a person who takes His name in vain will not be held blameless.
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Post by dale on Sept 22, 2006 7:52:16 GMT -5
1. Thanks Victoria, but it's our decision to reject God and not yours. We, not you, are the ones who have to live with it if we are wrong, not you.
2.Patriot, with all your grandstanding you already lied and started up with me again on another thread. Since liars go tot he lake of fire, I wills ave you a spot next to me. How do you like your hamburgers, as I;'ll cook them for us!
3.I love the lack of determination you people have. Shouldn;t your resistance make you more determined than ever to try to save us? Why not find other ways to reach us? Why giv eup soe asily? Did jesus give up on Paul, since you all like to crow on him so much? This proves the :"love: for us and desire to see us saved is indeed shallow, that we are nothces on a gun for you and nothing more.
I rest my case. Amen yourself, patriot.
GOd ,,,,,, (Out of respect I wouldn;t print the word on this board but I did say it aloud so now we can indeed add blasphemy to the list of my sins
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Post by dale on Oct 19, 2006 14:50:56 GMT -5
Let's bring back this thread and try not to hijack it, shall we? Let's stay on track With the new members coming in, this thread should be updated and I would like to hear the stories of the newcomers.
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Post by berean73 on Oct 19, 2006 20:12:22 GMT -5
Ok, I'll give it a shot.... just your normal everyday testamony here... so try to stay awake..... I was born to a couple struggling to get by, and to get along. Pop was a drinker, real heavy, who grew up rough. Mom was pretty normal. When I got to be around 10 or so, my dad started to get rough with me. I remember he use to take his belt, hold me up by one arm, and wrap his belt around my upper body... I also remember that really hurt. It was like this for a few years... dad would get drunk, I would do something to anger him, and here came the belt. He actually pushed me and slapped me around a few time too. Bear with me, I tell you this for a reason, not to elicit sympathy, but to explain what I think happened next in my life. At the age of 16 I became a skinhead. I was real angry at my dad, and so confused. I had been listening to punk music, cause it seemed to be just as angry as I was, and started hanging out with those types of people. I quickly found out I was a bit of a scrapper ya know what I mean? I got into so many fights. I left people lying on the ground not knowing what happened to them when I left. I shudder now when I think of it. One night we were fighting some other group of skinheads, and it was my turn to be beat. I woke up in a ditch completly beat up. I remember thinking... "man, I should be dead." I made a decision to get out of the gang, and I did. Now during this entire time so far I never even really thought about God, and I did not grow up in a Christian home at all. Some years went by, and I got a job in a nightclub. I worked as a bartender/back for awhile and met my mistress cocaine. I had smoked pot for quite sometime, and drank fairly heavily too, but coke was new to me. Boy oh boy did I love it. I loved it for about a year, but that was enough to do some damage. So as I look back I think the fighting, drugs, and alcohol were just a way to make the pain of my childhood go away. I quit doing coke, and smoking pot, but was still drinking fairly hard. I started to look into where my family came from. I found that my heritage comes from Ireland, Wales, and Germany. I'm the kind of person that really likes to read, and research so I really got into the history of these places. As I started to read further I got into the ancient past of these places..... Ooops, I hate to do this, and I don't want to lose anything I have written, but I gotta go all of a sudden. I'll finish this either later tonight, but most likely tomorrow... sorry.
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Post by dale on Oct 22, 2006 13:33:13 GMT -5
So do we get to hear the rest of the story or what?
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Post by berean73 on Oct 22, 2006 16:07:56 GMT -5
Yeah, sorry, life happened....
And I continue.....
So as I was reading all of this stuff about these particular ancient societies I became enthralled with the spiritual side of them. I really got into shamanism, and things of that nature. Now I will say that I didn't believe in the one true living God of the Bible, but it just didn't set right with me that there was nothing but us in the universe. I fugured there had to be something bigger than just little ol' me. So as I studied more and more about shamanism, I started to agree that every aspect of life as we know it had some "little god" in charge of it.
Anyway, I was into this pretty full on for about 3 years. I found some people to hang out with that were into the same kind of thing, and we had a good time. Yes I performed rituals, and incantations. Yes I spoke to these "little gods". Oh man I was so open minded to just about whatever. I figured, " ok, this is my truth, and it works for me, and you might have your truth too, and thats all good, as long as it works for you. Can't we all just get along?"
Being as open minded as I claimed to be, I decided to look into Christianity just so I could try to understand where my Christian friends were coming from. Truth of the matter is though, I wanted to be able to refute them. I wanted to show them that their "truth" was just another way of making them feel good about life. These Christian friends claimed that the Bible was the only source for their instruction, so I went a bought one.
Well I started to read it, and at first skipped around it for a few months. I had let a friend know I was doing this, and he told me to read the Gospel of John, so I did. He said that Jesus was the answer to all my questions, and if I wanted to understand the Bible, then I should read about Him.
See, back then I didn't like Christians very much. I had seen all the horrible things done under the banner of Christianity, and thought... uh, no thanks. I was very weary of this Jesus guy, because as far as I knew, His followers were a bunch of crazies, so why would I want to follow Him? Still though, I thought, ok, let's try to understand this.
As I read through John, one thing stood out loud and clear... Jesus was not like those in the crusades. He was not like the people in the inquisition, nor was He like the abortion clinic bombers. Instead what I saw was a man who was basically trying to let people know... there is a heaven, and there is a hell, and if you come to me, you will go to heaven, however, if you do not, you will go to hell. I still didn't understand why if I believed in Him, and repented of my sin that I would go to heaven. What I mean is who is He that He can "save" me. I didn't really believe that He was God Himself. I was confused, and thought... whatever, so I put the Bible down, and went on my merry way.
Forward 6 months or so later....
So, I'm doing fine at this point, enjoying life, still a pretty heavy drinker, but it's all good. I had perfomed a ritual with some friends at the park on this particular evening, and went home to go to sleep. It was about 4:30 in the morning when I woke up in a cold sweat, shaking, and crying.... yes I was crying ok, so get over it... lol. I had this complete sense of dread come over me. I thought at first that I was having some kind of heart attack or something. As I started to physically calm down, the sense of dread got stronger. I didn't know what was wrong, but something was amiss within me. Ok, so remember, six months ago I had put my Bible away, but at this moment I had a real big urge to get it out again.
I rummaged through my closet, found it, and started to flip pages. I had no idea what I thought I was gonna find in it, but I kept filling anyway. I would turn to a page, and look it over real quick, but nothing was jumping out at me... then I saw this.....
"There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, one who uses divination, one who practices witchcraft, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. "For whoever does these things is detestable to the LORD; and because of these detestable things the LORD your God will drive them out before you. (Deu 18:10-12)
Ok, so I had seen this before actually, back when I was trying to be open minded. As a matter of fact, this was one of the reasons I put my Bible away for 6 months. See, this passage basically explains what I was doing, and I thought.. "Well I ain't hurting anyone, so whats the big deal?".
Now I am reading it again, and I got a little freaked out. I asked myself, ok, what if this stuff is real? As I read the verses, I became increasingly worried about what I was doing. I didn't understand it back then, but now I know that the Lord was convicting me with His Word, as He does everytime. Still though, I was resistant.
Later on that week I went to a Pastor at a local church, I just picked one to go to since I had no idea of what I was doing, and discussed these things with him. I told him about my background, what I was into, things like that. Then I told him about what had happened that night I got convicted.
A side note:
Fellow Christians, could you imagine if it was always this easy? I mean to have a convicted sinner just come up to you and ask you what is going on with them? Come on....
So being a Christian pastor, he explained to me what he thought was going on, and presented the only way out for me... he gave me the Gospel messege. He told me who Jesus is, and showed me through old, and new testament scripture that Jesus was in fact God. He told me I needed to repent, and turn my life over to God. He told me I needed to believe that Jesus is who He says He is, and did what He did for us. I just thought.... uh, ok.?
The whole repenting thing was a bit much for me. You see, I wasn't too sure I wanted God to change anything in me. I was quite happy living the way I was living.... so stubborn.
Through out the rest of that week I felt this deep conviction that what that pastor told me was true, and I had been reading the same thing in my Bible. I had come to the point where I believed in God, one this time, but I just didn't see the need for change, after all I was a good person.
I went back to see that pastor the following week, and told him I just didn't see how I was bad. He showed me again in the Bible where God says that I am. He then asked me why I came back to talk to him again, and I fell silent.... why did I? After a few minutes of me just sittin' there he said " because you know this is true don't you?". I agreed, and went home.
Late that night I started to read about the death of Jesus again. I got to thinking about what that must have been like for even just a human. Then I thought about what is was like for God to do it. For God to take all of our sins upon Himself, just the weight of that alone must have been horrible. I believed, I mean truly believed. My sins were on Jesus, my disgusting behaviour, my hatred. I simply fell to the floor and cried, cried because He did it for me, so that I could be with Him when all of this is over.
For those of you who read this, and you're not saved, you can criticize me, or critique this all you want, but your jeers, and smart remarks can no longer affect me. If it gives you pleasure to take what I have written, and make fun of it in anyway, then by all means, do it. Just don't expect a response from me.
You can deny the one true living God all you want. You may blaspheme His Holy name, you may invite Him to have tea, and cake, but He will resist you in your pride. If you ever find it within you to humble yourself before God, He will accept you. He did me....
God bless my brothers, and sisters, and I pray for those that don't know the truth,
Amen
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abb
Full Member
Posts: 163
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Post by abb on Oct 22, 2006 19:43:41 GMT -5
And that my friends, is what we call non-fictional fiction.
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Post by dale on Nov 5, 2006 10:32:08 GMT -5
Let;s gets ome of the others to pist their stories as there are many that are missing. Sadly some of the people I would most like to hear about, just to find out theuir trip (Micah, Jesse, Rev K. Miles, Evan, Eli) are not doing this here.
And let's try not to gett he thread too hijacked....
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Post by laphilosophyjunkie on Nov 11, 2006 18:28:32 GMT -5
Well, I'm new here so I will post my beliefs. I am a Jesus follower. I don't like saying Christian because it has such a negative connotation to it nowadays, which I find sad. But yes, I am a Christian. I love Jesus with all that I have. He has saved and changed my life and I owe all to Him. I work to glorify and love Him with not only my heart (adoration) and strength (determination), but I also firmly believe that we as Christians need to love Him with our minds (intelligence). We need to be thinking and well educated, just as Jesus, Paul and Luke. We need to love people, and through our loving, everday relationships, the Holy Spirit will be able to manifest conviction and salvation through us to those who are hurting, confused, scared, dying. Because no one comes to the Father without the Spirit's leading. How can He lead if we are cruel, callous, domineering, mocking and segregated? I believe we do not need to conform to the underlying evils in this world, but we are not to separate ourselves from the world either. Uuuhmmm...I'm getting ready to work on my Master's degree, and I look forward to doctoral work later on. I love my church!!!! www.whatsyourstatus.com and I love people! I believe that we as Christians can come together and smile at our brokenness and celebrate our failures because it is through Christ Jesus and His beautiful love that those divisions and faults have been overcome. Together, we can stand, as normal people who have experienced the extraordinary love of Jesus.
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Post by dale on Nov 11, 2006 18:37:47 GMT -5
Uh, ok then.....the perceived "fresh meat" on the board this go around may prove a bit difficult to chew up and spit out....
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Post by victorialewis on Nov 11, 2006 20:12:03 GMT -5
Berean73.....what a powerful testimony you have. Thank you, brother, for sharing. Dale, I have purposely avoided this thread until now. And, frankly, I'm still not sure why I came here. To see Berean's testimony, most likely. Okay, Dale and Valentine, you asked for it. I will try to be succinct, tho I can't promise brevity. When someone shares their testimony, it is done in a position of vulnerability. But I'm no longer cringing when the heathens (especially the Alphabet Man) attack, because I don't care who knows what I was like, because I am being transformed. I have always believed in God. There were many years that the "G" should've been "g" cuz I formed him to suit my purposes. But I remember struggling at night with Satan over my soul (I was ten), and I was 8 yrs old when I first thought about suicide. The Lutheran church didn't offer much in the way of answers, tho I do recall being terrified of eternity...salvation was not mentioned in a meaningful way. Church was only an hour a week, then my family lived like everyone else the remaining 167 hours. When I became a teen-ager, I erupted into full-blown rebellion. I became promiscuous, dabbled in satanism (my eldest son's first girlfriend's mother remembered me walking the halls of our high school with Anton Zonder LeVay's "The Satanic Bible"), and became a feminist with strong opinions (and LOTS of them!). When I was 16, I slipped away from a school function to wander the streets of downtown Syracuse, NY. A couple of Jesus freaks (this was 1973) caught up with me, and (to make a long story short) I found myself in their commune, pretending to have the Holy Spirit so they'd let me go back to friends! That night, however, I told my parents that I was a Christian, confessed several sins to their utter shock, and began carrying a Holy Bible. But I had no discipleship, and it was a false conversion. I eventually returned to gratifying my fleshly desires, and became more wicked than before. My heart was hardened to Christianity, which I saw as weak and a sham. Fast forward ahead ten years....married to a friend from high school, and with three children, we lived an unhappy life with frequent fights over alcohol, and separations. I went back to college to finish my bachelor's and began teaching in the Syracuse City School District. My husband eventually found sobriety, and I found New Age. It appealed to the need for power and control, and somewhat answered my questions about eternity. My dad had died in 1992, so eternity was pressing on my mind. Into our school walked a Pentecostal woman who was unlike anyone I'd ever met. By this time, I was praying to Gaia, meditating, trying astral projection, and reading every nutty book out there. In 1994, as the new school year began, I asked this woman, Doreen, if we could pray together in the morning before the hordes of students arrived. I know that she was shocked, but agreed. (I didn't know it at the time, but her church began to pray for my soul) As we began to pray (I DID pray to God. I thought it would be impolite to pray to a goddess), and I gave Him my laundry list of demands, I would listen to her pray. "She KNOWS God", I thought. I began to really take notice of her "walk" as she called her life. She stunned me when I asked her how she always wore her long, long hair so beautifully. She said, "I just ask the Lord each morning, and He directs me." God cares about THAT?? As the months went on, she just loved me, but she did counter all the lies I had swallowed with Truth. She used God's Word, even though I told her that it was written by a bunch of men in order to control women (that cracks me up now, but it was what I believed) What I didn't realize at the time was that it didn't matter if I believed it or not. His Word is 'sharper than any two-edged sword' and it did its intended surgery on my heart. I was still reading New Age junk, and attending 'seminars'. In the back of my mind, I kept thinking, "Where is all the authority behind this?" I WANTED to believe it. After all, it sounded so pretty, and never brought any light onto my sins, past or present. Finally, my husband and I went to a Unitarian church (what a tool of Satan that is!) to listen to a lecture on the Celestine Prophesies, which I totally thought were real. When it finally hit me that it was a work of fiction, I was outraged! (imagine being lied to by a liar, when you yourself lied regularly!) At one point in a conversation with Doreen, she grouped me together with some of her Christian friends, but noted, "Even though you're not saved" and went on with whatever she was talking about. I was dumbfounded. It was as if a light went off and I knew it was true. I was NOT saved. I had rejected Christ all my life, and mocked God with every breath I took. I really began to wrestle with this whole Christianity thing. Could it be true? If it was, I was in deeeeep trouble. I'd broken every one of the Ten Commandments (including #6), and if Hell was real, then I was definitely headed there. In the fall of 1996, shortly after my brother-in-law died of cancer at age 46, I began to 'count the cost' of becoming a Christian. I began to ask questions of Doreen in earnest. She answered what she could, then would ask her husband and pastor some of the ones she didn't know....it took several months. I knew that if I submitted to Christ, it was going to be real. She told me to start reading the Bible. I opened it up, randomly, and found this: Matthew 7:24-27 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. On December 29, 1996, I submitted my life to God, and to Jesus Christ, though I told God I wasn't sure who His Son was, I trusted Him enough to show me. Which He has done. I became so transformed that my family did not know what had happened to me. I was delivered from: Prozac/depression, a foul mouth, anger, rebellion against my husband, hatred for others, feminism, witchcraft, and other sins which don't come to mind at the moment. I have been forgiven for not loving God with all my heart, mind and soul; making an idol to suit my sins, blasphemy, not having respect for the Sabbath, thievery, dishonoring my parents, adultery, lying, murder (abortion in 92 and ongoing hatred) and covetousness. I still have much work to do, and God is giving me everything I need for life and godliness. I know that repentance and trust in Christ is THE only way for me to live now.
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Post by dale on Nov 11, 2006 20:17:06 GMT -5
On the contrary, these testimonies help some of the nonbelievers understand some of you better and in my case at elast, view you as people amd not just as the dreaded christians.
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Post by cervyy on Nov 11, 2006 22:35:08 GMT -5
Who's the Allphabet Man??
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Post by berean73 on Nov 12, 2006 2:09:51 GMT -5
I'll make the assumtion that it's abb.
Awesome Victoria! To God be the glory!
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Post by victorialewis on Nov 12, 2006 23:04:16 GMT -5
I'll make the assumtion that it's abb. Awesome Victoria! To God be the glory! ;D you guessed it!
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Post by cervyy on Nov 13, 2006 2:17:36 GMT -5
Ohh ... I guess that makes sense ... maybe
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Post by dale on Nov 13, 2006 8:02:56 GMT -5
Face it, Victoria just isnt as witty as I am when it comes to giving nicknames to people.......
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luvofchrist
Full Member
"Gibson" the wonder pup
Posts: 233
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Post by luvofchrist on Nov 18, 2006 18:29:15 GMT -5
Sorry if this is long...
First of all, I’d like to say that this thread helps me a lot. Sometimes the computer can create greater, albeit sometimes safer, distances that can allow us treat each other more callously. As though the posts are just words on a page rather than having a person with feelings, thoughts and experiences behind them.
In all fairness and honesty, in the past, sometimes that has been my attitude. One which I hope will no longer be perpetuated either by me or others on this forum. If I have treated any of you like that here, please consider this my apology.
That having been said, I think it’s only fair you should know a little about me and my spiritual journey as well. My name is Jackie, I am 43 years old, and I’ve been married for 9 ½ years. My husband and I have been together for almost 15 years. I’ll get to that later. We have no children but we do have our very beloved dog, a Westie, named Gibson (no, he’s not named after the actor, alcoholic drink or guitar).
I was born and raised in northern Indiana. My parents attended a Methodist church (still do) which I attended with them until the age of 9. We went to church every Sunday and I attended Sunday school and Vacation Bible School when they had it in the summer. I remember learning to love Jesus at an early age. Looking back I don’t know why I loved him, except maybe for the concept of him being a “nice guy.” We sang “Jesus Loves the Little Children” every week in Sunday school so I guess I felt I should reciprocate. I really didn’t know why He had to die on a cross or anything about salvation. Frankly, in this church it was never explained, or if it was I don’t ever remember hearing it.
Well, many of you may not know that the Methodist church has this nasty habit of moving its pastors around every 4 or 5 years. Don’t ask me why. I think it’s a stupid practice….just when the shepherd really gets to know the sheep and they begin to trust him….Hey! Let’s move him out! Dumb. Anyway, I digress; my parent’s church got a new pastor. The year was 1972 and the whole “hippie” movement was just making its way to the Midwest from California. This new pastor, in an attempt to attract young people, began having “special music” in the church performed by the “hippies.” Well, I think the bare feet, hip-hugger jeans with holes and/or patches with macramé vests could all have been overlooked (maybe) by my parents if it weren’t coupled with the “special music” of songs like: “Abraham, Martin and John” or “If I had a Hammer…” Nice songs, but not exactly what would be considered appropriate for church. Hence, my parents stopped attending said church and so that meant we weren’t going either.
Sometime after our departure from this church, one Saturday some men in suits came to our door asking if there any children in the house who would be interested in attending Sunday school at a nearby church. If so, a bus would come by and pick us up and take us there and back. My mother, wanting her children to get religious grounding, asked them a few questions about what they believed to make sure they weren’t a whacked out cult (remember this was the early 70’s and Charles Manson and the influence he had on his “family” was still very much on people’s minds). Satisfied with their answers my mother then asked my brother and me if we wanted to go. I said yes and my brother joined me a few weeks later. Well, the first time I attended we were presented with the gospel message in Sunday school and junior church. By “the gospel message” I mean that we were all sinners and we needed to repent and to receive Jesus Christ as our savior in order to get right with God. (I’m sure it was explained more in terms a 9 year old could understand at the time, I’m just paraphrasing here for your convenience.) It was explained that even lying to our parents or stealing candy from a sibling was considered sin. Wow! Wham! Bang! I realized then that I had lied to my parents on occasion to get out of trouble and I had taken candy or things from my brother when he didn’t know. I was one shaken up 9 year old girl! For some reason I didn’t repent that week but determined I would when I went back the next week and I did.
Over the ensuing years I continued to attend this church. I attended Youth Group as well but I have to admit that my high school antics didn’t line up with my beliefs. I was torn between wanting friends and wanting to be popular vs. being a faithful witness of Christ. I, like Dale, was an exceptional student and took a lot of honors courses. What kid do you know who takes Honors Russian Literature in high school?! I was a bit of an intellectual geek who got along better with her teachers than her peers. That coupled with being a born again Christian in high school and I think you can understand my “square peg” awkwardness in high school.
In an effort to “fit in” someplace I was heavily involved in the Drama Club and loved working on the plays and Thespian Competitions but the atmosphere and attitude was less than conducive to a Christ glorifying life and I knew it in my heart too. There were times I agonized about the lies in my life but obviously not enough.
Finally, graduation day arrives (and none too soon for me) and I attend the Christian liberal arts college associated with my denomination. I attended the required daily chapels and the theology courses along with the liberal studies courses. I sailed blithely through college once again more concerned about fitting in and making friends and being popular than cultivating my relationship with Christ. Oh, I wasn’t a rebel or anything but I don’t think anyone would accuse me of setting the world on fire for Jesus either. Again, really involved in the dramatic arts aspect of the college only this time it’s a Christian environment so the temptations and libertinism weren’t a factor.
However, here I experienced some of my greatest disappointments with people. While in high school my classmates could be cruel and petty but they weren’t claiming to be Christians. Yet, here I was at a Christian college and the attitude and actions of some of the students, who claimed to be Christians, were sometimes just as bad but the pain was worse when they hurt me because these people were claiming to be different than the world. Some of my worse “sob sessions” were during this time. So when people share about the hypocrisy of Christians on this forum, I really understand. This is what they mean.
I graduated with my Bachelor of Arts in Speech Communications with a minor in Psychology and within a year headed out to Los Angeles with some friends to find fame and fortune in Hollywood. Ah, the naïve dreams of youth! My gullibility quotient was still pretty high at this point and after a year or so in “Tinsel town” I was invited to a party that had some Hollywood movers and shakers in attendance. (BTW: It was here I once met Aaron Spelling and he was very kind to me, for all intents and purposes, a nobody). Aside from Mr. Spelling, what I witnessed at this party made me want to cry and/or vomit and that was the end of my “Hollywood” dreams. I witnessed hypocrisy on a grand scale and I wanted nothing more to do with the decadence and depravity I had just witnessed. Never do I watch interviews with celebs anymore without a huge dose of cynicism. Looking back on this I believe God was saving me from a potentially destructive lifestyle that I would not have been able to handle.
Nevertheless, the lights and lure of all that is within one’s grasp in Los Angeles was a little too much to resist and I began to stray further and further from God. I called it my “Midwestern girl meets bright lights, big city” syndrome. But NEVER ONCE in the ensuing years did I ever deny God’s existence or forget He was there. I did a lot of things I’m not proud of during the next ten (yep, you read right, ten) years. I got married and divorced to a non-Christian, alcoholic, bar owner. The “what was I thinking?” light goes on when I remember that time. I experimented with and/or investigated many of the world religions during this time (particularly Buddhism and the New Age type beliefs).
I was an administrative assistant at a large cruise ship line, had a personal trainer, my own apartment and life was good. Or was it? It was during this time I met my future husband, Garrie. We met one night and never looked back. Sadly, at the time both of us were nominal Christians at best, false converts at worst. After two years of dating and sleeping together we decided to move in together. We were living in the valley in January of 1994 when the big “Northridge” earthquake hit. We were only 6 blocks from the epicenter and the apartment building that collapsed on those families was just two blocks around the corner from where we lived.
We moved up to Sacramento and then 9 months later moved back down to Southern Cal closer to Palm Springs. Up in Sac I had gotten bit by the medicine bug (my husband’s aunt and uncle were both nurses) and I decided to go to nursing school. In nursing school I had this wonderful woman as a classmate who epitomized all that Christianity was about. Kind, warm hearted and loving but no nonsense as well. For our purposes I’ll call her Jane but we all called her “Mama” even though she was our age. She just had that mothering and nurturing aspect about her. Again, there were others in class who also claimed to be Christians but one student did nothing but back-bite and gossip about the other students. Sadly, she was the most popular student as well. Here I was, almost 34 years old and I felt like I was back in high school again. I kept my eye on Jane and remember thinking “That is what I want in my life. That’s the Christian life I want to have.”
Meanwhile, Garrie and I are still living together. At this point I’m beginning to feel convicted about it but not Garrie. While we were planning to get married but we hadn’t set a date yet. It was during this time my parents came out to visit and my mother proceeded to tell Garrie how disappointed and upset she was that we were living in sin. Garrie politely and respectfully told my mom, in essence, that we were grown adults and to mind her own business. This tidbit of info will be important later.
Consequently I began looking in the area for a church to attend. I felt I had a good handle on what sound doctrine was from the college I attended so I had my “weirdness radar” turned on as I went to each church. Some were fine doctrinally but dead as a doornail spiritually. Others were the opposite, a lot of activity and jumping around with tongues and the like but more holes in their doctrine than Swiss cheese. I imagined what it would be like to be a non-Christian without the theological training I had had and wondered what people must think when they walk into some of these whacked out churches. Then I remembered that the apostle Paul did address it in1 Cor 14:23-24: “So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind?” NIV
Finally, I landed in a Calvary Chapel one Sunday and not only was there great verse by verse teaching from the Bible but the church seemed alive. Not weird alive, but alive with the Spirit. I can’t really explain it other than to say I felt like God was saying: “Welcome home.” I went home after church to tell Garrie about it and asked him to come with me the next Sunday. He agreed to but later told me that he only thought he would agree to do it for one Sunday to make me happy and that he fully expected to be back the week after in his easy chair watching football. However, after church the next Sunday I turned to Garrie in the car and asked what he thought. He responded with: “I think we need to be here every Sunday.” As we attended church each week we both began to have a greater hunger to know more about the Bible and greater conviction about our sin. Understand, no one at the church knew we were living together (over 3,000 people in the church) so it wasn’t from people we were being convicted, but we were coming under the conviction of the Word of God and the Spirit of God.
In the meantime, I was studying for exams to graduate from nursing school and was now also planning our wedding. Somehow I still managed to graduate in the top 3 of my class with everything going on. We had our wedding and our honeymoon. Something happened when we got back home, it was like the light was turned on or blinders taken off or something. Suddenly, both of us were insatiable for the Word of God and being amongst God’s people. We began attending a Thursday night home Bible study as well. Garrie wrote a 3 page apology note to my mother for our sin of living together and for telling her off. I can tell you that letter scored big points with my mom.
We think these things were all a result of God being able to use us now. God will not bless disobedience and God could only reveal so much to us while we were living in sin, but once we got married it was like all the barriers were removed. We had responded to the light we had and God was now able to show us more.
Eventually we knew that the world needed to hear the gospel of Jesus Christ and dedicated our lives to being missionaries for that purpose. We were in Hungary for the last 7 years and my husband had a refugee camp ministry outside Budapest. We encountered people and cultures from all over the world here in this camp. I can’t begin to tell you the stories of suffering, persecution and heartache that are in the “suffering central” of a refugee camp. You know what I learned there? That my perceived slights, hurts and petty interpersonal problems were nothing compared to what these people dealt with in their lives. It was here that the Lord graciously reminded me that His own Precious Son was betrayed by one of his own disciples as well. One week people were hailing him as Messiah, the very next week calling for his crucifixion. King David was betrayed by his own sons. Joseph, by his own brothers. This is not a fault with God but with man.
The apostle Paul said himself that he had been in danger from false brothers. In fact, I read the entire chapter of 2 Corinthians 11 and realized that Paul is talking about the deception of false brothers. The people in the Corinthian church were being confused and lead astray by them as well. Yet Paul never blamed God for these betrayals, he knew that God remains true but men fail.
The failings and disappointments of Christian family and friends still is the one thing that can make me cry more than anything else. Rather than become bitter, write them or God off, I try to learn from what happened and at the same time remember that they, just like I, am on a learning curve. I will make mistakes, I will end up hurting people, I will disappoint people but I hope and pray now that I will learn from it and only by the grace of God, it will happen less often in the future.
I realize more and more that Christians aren’t perfect. I’m not, why should I expect my brothers and sisters to be? Is this an excuse for the hypocritical behavior of some Christians? Absolutely not! But as I would want grace to be extended to me and not to be written off, so I am learning to give grace to others and not write them off. Does this mean I just gloss over and ignore slights, hurts and downright injurious behavior? No. But I try to restore in love, but if a rebuke is necessary, one is given. If forgiveness is needed, it’s given.
I’ve learned that love is not accepting all behaviors of people. Love means being willing to help them even if it’s painful, love means helping them to become better Christians as well and sometimes that means rebuke and correction. Leaving them to go on their way isn’t loving them anymore than a parent would let their child walk towards a rabid dog. It (the behavior/dog) might look innocent and cuddly at first but then it bites you, and if left untreated, with infect you to the point where your mind is warped and death is the only outcome.
That’s a little of who I am, where I came from and the journey with Christ I am on. I invite anyone to join me. It’s not an easy ride, you have to count the cost, you may lose out on somethings here but you gain eternity!
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Post by victorialewis on Nov 18, 2006 19:57:38 GMT -5
Praise God, Jackie! What a testimony! Thank you for sharing. I was very encouraged, and I hope that we hear more from you! Has your husband joined the message board? God bless you both!
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Post by fs on Feb 6, 2009 16:52:40 GMT -5
was scanning very old threads and was captivated by this one. Some new people should post their tales here. It is a pity so many nonbelievers once here are gone (banned? ?_) I will add my s story to this as well. I should live to hear from the street preachers and others such as Kureji and their stories as well....
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