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Post by bullhornbob on Dec 15, 2006 0:57:23 GMT -5
For now, I'm going to do more listening on this subject then talking. Excellent advice, Jesse. I have gone over this for more than a year now. Lots of interesting scriptures; like Ezek. 18, of course Romans throughout, but how about James 1, speaking about sin being a result of giving in to temptation. Why would "each man" be tempted to sin if we already have a sin nature? And where does the lust come from? Interesting.....................
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Post by bullhornbob on Dec 14, 2006 10:19:41 GMT -5
I agree RevK. We need to stay focused.
I have also been studying and praying about this for many months.
It seems I had some beliefs that were taught to me over the years. Some really Godly people challenged some of my beliefs (not just original sin, I might add), and I began to thoroughly search the Word.
I am truly amazed at what I am finding. May God bless your study and prayer time concerning this most important subject.
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Post by bullhornbob on Dec 14, 2006 0:02:14 GMT -5
Something to add to the mix here, guys.
If we are born to sin, with a sin nature, then how is God justified for judging sinners on Judgement Day? They are not willingly sinning, but are forced to sin by default. One would never choose to accept Christ because he is destined to be a sinner, and all he knows is sin, sin, sin. This original sin thing is a perfect excuse to go out and sin some more (when we know Jesus said GO AND SIN NO MORE). The sodomites love this original sin stuff. "I was born this way," they always say.
Also, the reason we need to be born again is not because we are born sinners, but because we were born with the ability to choose to sin, and did just that. The first birth is marred by the choice to sin, requiring new birth. Hence the term, born again. Being born the second time is impossible physically, but it is a rebirth of the spirit of a man.
Also, many scriptures can actually be favorable to both sides of this discussion. Take Romans 5:12 for example. It says by one man sin entered into the WORLD (not into man), and death by sin, because all have sinned. Paul sections these statements on purpose, to show us that knowledge of sin came into the world through Adam (remember, it was the tree of the KNOWLEDGE of good and evil), and death as the result of that sin. Death passes on to all who sin. Babies are unable to sin, because they cannot reason for themselves, or have any choice in the matter. Jesus even said that unless we become AS ONE OF THESE LITTLE ONES, we will by no means enter the Kingdom.
I have some more, but it is bedtime for me!
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Post by bullhornbob on Mar 31, 2007 0:17:57 GMT -5
A couple of points to ponder:
If all are born sinners, then all have no choice but to sin. And how can one choose not to sin if all are born without a choice in the matter?
Also, how is God justified in sending man to the lake of fire? Man has no choice in the matter. No free will. This is unjust.
The soul that sins, it shall die.
What about the one who never hears the true gospel of repentance before death? Many would refer to "the law of God written on their hearts." Well, is the law written on the heart, or sin?
The scriptures that are always used to convince people of original sin are in Romans 5, but they do not come right out and say we inherit Adam's sin. Both sides of the argument can benefit from this chapter.
Paul, in my opinion, was refuting the "law-abiding" Jews of Rome who thought that they inherited righteousness just because they were of Abraham. This argument is commonly misinterpreted to fit the "original sin" doctrine of today.
Most people struggle with "original sin" because they are dabbling in sin, or they cannot comprehend God's ability to conquer sin. It is too overwhelming for them, so they take the easy path, and place the blame on Adam, and choose to continue in sin.
Adam is surely burning in hell now, and will go to the lake of fire, if he is responsible for everyone's sin!
I might point out that this same blame game (now, can anyone else possibly come up with 3 words in a row in the same sentence that rhyme?) took place in the garden, and the only one who was wise enough to keep his mouth shut when confronted by God was the devil. He knew he was a sinner, and he had no-one to blame but himself. He laughed, I am sure.
That stinkin' devil is a master deceiver. Keep your heart, mind, soul and strength focused on Christ and lovingly obeying Him, brothers.
And may the precious Holy Spirit reveal the truth of this matter once and for all to His dear SAINTS (not sinners)!
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Post by bullhornbob on Aug 23, 2006 0:09:09 GMT -5
otc, I am glad you are here to learn. I pray you don't take our word on who god is, but that you read your Bible and obey it. Great advice, ltt. otc, Please note that I am only giving advice based on scripture, and I am not trying to offend you at all. I do have to say that, based on what I have read in the posts and responses in this thread, you do have a tendency to overthink things a little bit. Although this can at times bring great clarity to certain issues, it can also sometimes lead to doubt, discouragement, and double-mindedness. To say one is a christian, and not know if he is born again, is a classic example of this very thing. To elaborate, Jesus commended Nicodemus as a great teacher of the Mosaic Law, but he was not a son of God. I am sure he had some great insight into truth and he was very close to the Kingdom of God and salvation. But Jesus warned him that he would never see the Kingdom. He needed to DIE to self and self-righteousness. He had to forsake his self-justifying dependence on the keeping of the law, and be BORN AGAIN of the Spirit of God. Remember, the Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth. Keeping the sabbath is not a requirement for salvation, although your desire to obey is certainly evident. This will be very helpful as you learn and grow in grace. Less painful, too. Keep in mind that Jesus told us that the sabbath was made for man, and man was not made for the sabbath. In my humble opinion, the busy-ness of this present culture can suck the life right out of you if you are not diligent to walk in the Spirit. So, give the Lord your undivided attention every day, not just on that 7th day of rest. You will be glad you did. Please, please make sure that you know that you are born again. "The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit that we are the children of God." A child of the devil can only become a child of God by dying to sin and self, putting total trust and faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Master, and living a biblically obedient and sin free life. Hope this helps
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Post by bullhornbob on Aug 20, 2006 23:46:16 GMT -5
I honestly want to know why we (Sunday Keepers) worship on this day if it is in fact not the day Jesus told us to. If this has been used as bait before, I can see why. Its a very confusing question. I just thought a dedicated forum of fellow christians would be able to help me through it, because my conference left me flabbergasted. I felt like I was being brushed off, and with your response being the way it is, perhaps the reason they brushed me off so quickly was because they thought I was baiting them. Please help me address this problem. I'm adamant in the belief that it should be addressed. If you still insist that I am baiting you, then may I remind you that Jesus still answered the "baited" questions of his many aggressors. I'm tired of being blown off like this. OTC, Make it your main objective and sincere desire to OBEY and WORSHIP God every minute of every day. To restrict yourself to a certain day of the week is to follow the commandments of man. The Father seeks those who will worship in Spirit and in Truth. I personally find my private times of prayer, bible reading and fellowship in the Spirit with God far more glorious than any experiences I have had in any Sunday corporate fellowship. I am NOT against meeting weekly, but does it really matter which day it is? Some churches meet on Wed, Fri, AND Sun. Some have a meeting every day. The important thing to remember is that an intimate and obedient relationship with Christ as individuals is the biblical foundation for a Godly corporate fellowship. I say we move the official church meeting day to Monday. More people need more ministry (that is why we go to church, right? To be ministered to,and get our needs met, correct?) on Monday than any other day of the week. SIDE-BAR.......Besides, most Christians are more concerned about football on Sundays than anything else, let alone a church service. Sitting through a 1.5 hour service is way too much for them, but they can be glued to the TV for 6 straight hours of kickoffs, passes, punts and touchdowns. Let alone the porno-graphic cheerleaders and the close-ups by the camera men. Hope this helps ;D
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Post by bullhornbob on Aug 15, 2006 21:46:05 GMT -5
I have been talking to a mate who holds strongly to the 5 points of the reformed viewpoint. Now he brought this scripture up to show predestination. So I would like others opinion. We love him, because he first loved us. - 1 John 4:19 Now this is an interesting passage of scripture, but my question is: If we love God because He first loved us, does that mean that those who don't love God, are not loved by Him, and won't be loved by Him? Josh, we know that God's love is conditional on our obedience to Him. John 14:21 states "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."This love that everyone seems to spout about so freely and without regard to scriptural context is very different than what most Christians think it is. It is deep and intimate, fully obedient and, without hesitation, willing to die to uphold God's truth! So to answer your question: Yes, God loves enough to make provision (John 3:16) for all to enter into an obedient and loving relationship with Him. And, No, God is not deeply in love with those who wickedly disobey Him. He is angry with them, and He hates them (Psalm 5:5, 7:11, 11:4-7, etc)
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Post by bullhornbob on Aug 9, 2006 22:33:19 GMT -5
AHHH!! This podcast makes me want to scream. I honestly can't tell if this is a joke or if this guy is serious. If you have time, have a listen. www.podcast.net/play/45768/14Even if this is not a joke, I think this is what "modern Christianity" thinks about Bullhorn Guys. Okay, Okay, I admit it....it was ME with the bullhorn and the tracts. Those guys heckled me for half an hour, trying to shut me up! But on a more serious note (It was NOT me, j/k), it will only be a matter of time, and I say it already has, before this poison paralyzes the mainstream evangelical churches, and things like homosexuality, abortion, rebellious lifestyle and friendship with the world is accepted and permitted all in the name of "love," even much more so than it already is. Now, how much more important is it to rally the troops and lift up our voices, to cry aloud and spare not, to declare the sin of the US and the iniquity of our nation to a backward generation of God lovers/haters! To the gospel hardened youth of this wicked generation! Here is a good question.....How long ago was the bible and prayer removed from the public school systems of America? Here we are, just 2/3rd's of a generation away from that, and what a stinking mess! We are in the deception phase of the last days. Please stay in your bibles, and stay on your face before the Lord Jesus. They may start recalling bibles any day now. Preachers, don't you dare compromise the Word of the Lord. Preach it with sincerity and conviction, but also preach it like it might be your last time preaching it!
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Post by bullhornbob on May 24, 2006 23:36:26 GMT -5
Hey guys, I need some assitance. Are we supposed to keep the commandments? I know it's impossible, and that only the Holy Spirit can give us the power to obey God.................I want to be obediant, what are the guidelines? Probably one of the most revealing scriptures in the New Testament for this subject is I John 5:3-- "For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments, and His commandments are not grievous (burdensome)."In other words, if you say you really love God, then keeping His commandments is not a big deal; it should be a joy to obey God. Why do you say this is impossible? I John 3 should answer most of this. It clearly shows a believer's ability to walk in complete obedience to God. As far as the Holy Spirit obeying God through you, how is this your obedience, and not a work of God? Now for those of you who want to remind me about being saved by grace through faith, and not of works, I am talking about obeying and submitting to God post conversion, not repenting and being born again. Galatians 2:10 (the verse after 8 and 9) says " For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which He hath before ordained that we should walk in them."We are created to obey by choice, and compelled to obey by our great love for Him. Hope this helps. Oh, and by the way, the Bible has all the answers. Pray and ask God in faith to show you specific answers. He has never let me down.
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Post by bullhornbob on May 6, 2006 0:00:38 GMT -5
Well, I did find this little gem. Perhaps you could respond to that? This is the gay agenda from two gay authors. Is there a better description of it? Well trekkie, you have avoided the original question twice now. What's up with that? Here is a book that takes a true look at the agenda: The Homosexual Agenda - Alan Sears & Craig Osten Review the above at this link: www.intellectualconservative.com/article3520.htmlAnd another book on the subject: The Gay Agenda - Dr. Ronnie W. FloydThese give a biblically comprehensive, although not exhaustive, look at the real agenda of the sodomite community. Please take the time to look them up. I mean, you can tolerate it, right? And while you are at it, maybe you can actually answer my original question. Then I can answer some more of yours ;D
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Post by bullhornbob on May 4, 2006 22:10:49 GMT -5
Just a quick question first: What is the homosexual agenda? I've been trying to find a copy for a while, without success. Thanks! Okay, trekkie, just answer the question. Thanks. ;D Google will help with your question. You could read all night about it.
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Post by bullhornbob on May 4, 2006 0:41:25 GMT -5
I am really concerned that most people, including professing Christians, turn a deaf ear and a blind eye to the rampant rise of the homosexual agenda in our society.
The reason I bring this up is because in an open-air event this past weekend, two sodomite men walked directly in front of me and rather emphatically proclaimed "Jesus loves me, and I am going to heaven." Of course I rebuked them sharply, but to no avail. These two were steeped in the current fad of falsified "bible" teachings of tolerance and all-inclusive love.
The Bible condemns homosex as SIN. Most sodomites will cry about God and his love for everyone, so here is my question in reply:
If God loves the homosexuals so much, then why did he rain down fire and brimstone from heaven on the cities of Sodom, Gomorrah, and the surrounding cities?
Now, that does not sound very loving to me. So, is the God of the Bible a schizophrenic? Did He just lose His cool that day? Has he changed His mind suddenly, and is He now choosing to embrace this perversion of His creation?
I think not.
Most people have made the grave mistake of thinking the God of the Old Testament has somehow morphed or transformed into a psuedo-New Testament, totally all-loving, sin-tolerant, bubbly character who is sitting up in heaven jubilantly waiting for all of his little sin-infested, disobedient children to come home to Him one day.
Well people, I have an announcement to make---listen carefully:
This false teaching is heretical, unbiblical, ungodly, and could be no further from the truth! How can anyone who reads the Bible with even an iota of logic and understanding not see that the God of the Bible is unchanging?
Hebrews 13:8, 9a says "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines"
For those who defend the sin of homosex, and still claim allegiance to the God of the Holy Bible, please present your case scripturally, and I will without a doubt enter into debate to defend the Holy God of the Holy Bible!
Oh, and for those who might say "we live in the dispensation of grace, and not the law," please note the following:
Titus 2:11, 12 says "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world"
SOUND OFF
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Post by bullhornbob on Mar 24, 2006 0:33:08 GMT -5
Just thought I would chime in......
John 3:16-21 clearly draws a line of distinction between those who love God and hate sin, and those who love sin and hate God. One or the other, and no gray areas. This is the theme throughout the Bible.
I also find it amazing that this one verse (16) is constantly quoted out of context.
Our minds cannot fathom the abhorrence God has towards sin. So we must rationalize, as to appease the erroneous mindset caused by false teaching, which is obviously caused by being slothful in reading and studying the Bible.
Doesn't anybody study for themselves anymore?
Lazy, deceived, and lukewarm american christianity. People sin because they want to sin. Bottom line.
I'm getting nauseous just thinking about it.
Soundoff!
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Post by bullhornbob on Mar 28, 2006 12:53:11 GMT -5
Armen said: Don't try and understand it bro, just believe the Word. BB says: Wow, Armen. Are you for real?
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Post by bullhornbob on Jan 31, 2006 0:59:44 GMT -5
ABSOLUTELY BENEFICIAL!
Just reading the posts raises questions, concerns, and a resulting desire to seek the truth in the Word for anyone who is authentically seeking to obey God.
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Post by bullhornbob on Jan 31, 2006 1:03:58 GMT -5
Give that preacher-girl a bullhorn, and sound that off in the ears of the whole church.
I pray more will hunger after God's truth as you have, ejuliot.
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Post by bullhornbob on Jan 28, 2006 0:17:50 GMT -5
That is a long read, brother. But worth it! I should be finished by next Tuesday (kidding)
Something to consider: Love = Obedience
Jesus stated that our love for Him is expressed through our willing obedience to Him. I say that the church has a false definition of love. It is a selfish definition, in that it incorporates it's own set of rules for living the "christian life", diverting from the truth of the gospel. It is actually a form of rebellion, and is demonic in nature (see James 3:13-18).
With this said, if Christ says to stop sinning, we must obey Him if we really love Him. It is time to stop making excuses, and put our faith into action. Live holy, church!
Soundoff!
bullhornbob ;D
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Post by bullhornbob on Feb 14, 2006 1:42:23 GMT -5
It is sort of like teaching humans they came from animals. They start to act like animals. Teach man he is born a sinner and he is convinced he can never stop sinning. Amen, Micah. We see the fruit of evolution plaguing our society today, but also the fruit of the error of original sin plaguing our churches as well. It has fostered an evironment of apathy and permissiveness, and it also gives the sinner an excuse to stay in sin. How convenient. I believe the churches are full of false converts, mainly because the doctrine of repentance has been discarded due to man's supposed inabilty to shake free from sin. One note on Romans 5:12 - "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned." I find it very interesting how both sides of the debate on OS find footing in this verse. My two cents: Sin entered into the world, not man. Death is the result of sin. All have (and will) choose to sin, which is why Christ came, "to save his people from their sins."
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Post by bullhornbob on Feb 1, 2006 1:02:44 GMT -5
If I may comment here:
It is not for us to know the times or the seasons, but the command from Christ is to be ready at all times. Only the Father knows, and that will not change.
I would not waste too much time trying to figure out which veiw is accurate, as this has gone on for generations and none have been able to conclude that one theory is more accurate above another.
Jesus also said, "When the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?" I also remember Paul saying "Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."
Soundoff!
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Post by bullhornbob on Jan 6, 2008 22:01:36 GMT -5
Please pray for the wife and I, and all of the other campus/street preachers, as we head off to campuses and events this week, and this entire new year.
The Lord willing, our journey begins on campuses in Florida, and then on to Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and ending the spring semester in California.
I am convinced that the only thing we really lack is proper intercession from other Christians, as this type of prayer will lead to God revealing Himself and His will to those who diligently seek Him. As His will is revealed, the heart of the intercessor is convinced of God's ability to perform the very things revealed through prayer. A sincere and obedient servant will then carry out the will of his Master without question.
Many could perish, and die in their sins. What are we going to do about it?
My prayer is that many more will be stirred from the slumber of mediocrity and apathy, and give themselves to fasting and prayer, as Christ commanded us:
"The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest" Luke 10:2
I am sure others, as well as myself, appreciate those laboring in prayer for all of the saints encroaching the enemy lines across this country and around the globe.
Plowing,
Brother JK and Sister Evangelista
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Post by bullhornbob on Jun 13, 2007 22:20:13 GMT -5
I'm in North Carolina now, in Wilson, with my wife. We arrived safely last night, after we drove 17 or so straight hours. Wow, what a small world. I have a very close friend of mine who just took a pastoral position at a church (worship leader) in Wilson. I also know of 3 families who have relocated to NC in the last year. I might have to start looking for some property up there myself...lol...j/k.
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Post by bullhornbob on Nov 19, 2006 23:14:55 GMT -5
Stirring...indeed.
I was able to go with the wife and a friend today, and preach to the thousands at the NASCAR championship race. At one point, I was overwhelmed with the hard hearted and stiff necked idolaters, running blindly towards the slaughter.
Thanks for the heart felt article.
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Post by bullhornbob on Dec 28, 2007 21:38:25 GMT -5
This clip is from Fox News Sunday, featuring the one and only Joel Osteen and his most revealing comments to date: www.foxnews.com/video2/player06.html?122307/122307_fns_osteen&FNS&Joel%20Osteen&acc&US&-1&News&829&&&exp"Everyone likes a winner, with my help, you're guaranteed to win, And hey man, you ain't no sinner, you've got the truth within.
And as your life slips by you believe the lie that you did it on your own, But don't worry, I'll be there to help you share our dark eternal home."These are lyrics from an old Keith Green song, and I can't help but link this to Joel's modern gospel teachings. ( The devil is supposed to be singing the song) If noone cares that Joel basically endorsed Romney in that clip, then it is much worse than I thought, here in the good 'ole US of A
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Post by bullhornbob on May 11, 2007 22:29:50 GMT -5
Jonathan,
You do not believe one can blaspheme the Holy Ghost today?
Should we not consider those who might attribute the work of the Holy Spirit in a genuine believer to the devil the same as the examples in Mark and Matthew?
After all, the blasphemy in question is against the Spirit, and not the Son. Jesus clearly seperates the two, does He not.
I am not trying to argue or attack, but I am being very sincere.
JK
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Post by bullhornbob on Feb 14, 2007 15:24:37 GMT -5
Have you read Evans "Foolish Mockery" article? This kind of stuff is what he is talking about. Alan, I don't recall laughing at any sin during that preach. Did you see any of the preachers laughing and mocking at sin? I think for you to say Evan's point stated in the mockery article applies to us is very much in error. You only have to see a few minutes of the preaching to understand why. I guess you consider us to be fools then, according to Proverbs 14? (Insert John 7:24 here) I am always open to correction and even rebuke, but to subtly say on this message board that we are fools and mocking at sin brings division before righteous judgement. Try judging righteously first, and then correct, and if necessary, rebuke. I appreciate your understanding, and try not to read emotion into my text ;D
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Post by bullhornbob on Feb 13, 2007 0:44:34 GMT -5
That was not preaching. That was making a mockery of the gospel. If the "flesh" could walk in "flesh" that's what it would look like. Excuse me? That was sarcastic music, not preaching, Sean. It was a clip of a song. Not preaching. The preaching was fiery and passionate, but not included in this clip. Again, for the 3rd time, THIS WAS NOT PREACHING! Are you responding to my post in the power of the Holy Spirit? Or are you offended by the truth of the lyrical content? The gentleman performing the song was delivered out of homosexuality 12 years ago, and credits street preachers in Mardi-Gras for helping him to get out of the pit. Did you listen to his testimony within the song? Would you like some of the video of those poor little students who just cant get enough of themselves? The mockers and the filthy mouthed girls screaming at the top of their lungs? BTW, are you judging me just by my 1 little youtube clip? That would be awful hypocritical of you. You must learn how to judge righteously.
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Post by bullhornbob on Feb 12, 2007 23:39:29 GMT -5
www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcmKAAI6U5AThe commentary by the students is very alarming. This is the public "permit" campus called FIU. They decide when they want you there, and how long you stay, and what kinds of literature you can distribute. I heard one of the preachers say it was more like a community college than an actual university, and I agree. We had screaming red-faced lesbians in our faces for most of the preach.
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Post by bullhornbob on Aug 16, 2006 23:17:29 GMT -5
Hey Dan,
I am not trying to rub this in your face, but you are obviously not going to respond to my posts in this thread. I have no problem with that.
But, I must also note that it seems that sometimes you say some things on this board that you claim are scripturally sound, but then you get challenged by another person, and then you disappear.
Even Bro. Miles recently said:
Dan, in all fairness, you do tend to say something is or is not scriptural and then do not give a reasoned biblical defense of your statement when challenged........ Much love brother.
Miles
So, my best advice to you is to finish your conversations and try to be a gentleman. I hope that you are not offended by my strong stance, but I feel that sometimes it can be very disrespectful to the person being ignored, and to others reading the posts.
"By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, by the love that you have for one another" - Jesus Christ
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Post by bullhornbob on Aug 15, 2006 22:48:08 GMT -5
and such a sthis, along with the Scriptures posted above, speak more than any further elaboration on my part . Dan, does this mean you don't want to continue with our conversation?
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Post by bullhornbob on Aug 15, 2006 22:29:41 GMT -5
Bullhornbob Said: Dan, I believe you have placed your opinion above the main scriptural teachings of those verses. You did not seem to follow context. Brother, I gave Biblical reference and Biblical preference...above my opinion. Note I did not at any time claim that "God doesn't hate"... I claimed, Scripturally, that He hates CERTAIN groups, as my previous posts show. I simply post here that it is NOT Biblical to run around in a general setting telling people in hearing distance, "Hey bud! God hates you! Wanna get saved now?" God LOVES those in the world...as John 3:16 states. I'm wondering, Bullhorn.... would it be ok if I continually claimed God hated YOU? Of course you would then possibly list your "10 reasons why I'm loved by God" post, due to your "obedience to the Lord". You see, if the tables were turned, you'd be as shocked as the guy hearing it on the street. It appears the only ones God DOESN'T hate here are the saved ones... Unfortunately, many fail to remember that at one time they were NOT saved and God's LOVE reached out in Salvation. The Lord quickened my heart with a word, and I stand on that word, which is based on 1 John 4:19, and such a sthis, along with the Scriptures posted above, speak more than any further elaboration on my part God doesn't save those whom He hates; He saves those who hate HIM. Now now, Dan. You seem to be getting a little hot under the collar. You did say this: Note though, that those God hates are ONLY those who KNEW the Truth yet refused what they KNEW of God and His Word.
Those who are sinful by nature yet have not heard nor known of the Gospel are not hated; they are called.I am simply saying that your references do not justify your statements. Now, who in the world is running around saying "God hates you buddy...now, do you wanna get saved"? I never insinuated that even remotely. Also, God so LOVED (past tense, look it up) the world...as John 3:16 states. God does not love the world, Dan. Please refenece I John 2:15-17. This is why most debates start in open-air settings with other so-called christians. They do not have a biblical understanding of God and love. It is a worldly, fleshly understanding of God and His love. Now, are you saying all of the OT enemies of God were aware that the God of Israel was willing to let them live if they only converted to Judaism? Remember, you said God only hates those who knew the the Truth yet refused what they KNEW of God and His Word. God does not only hate certain groups. There are only two groups of people in the world: Children of God, and children of the devil. God loves the one, and hates the others. He loves the obedient and faithful, and despises the disobedient and wicked. This is scriptural, Dan. I think you may have overlooked my complete post. Did you read it in it's entirety? I think you may misinterpret my motives. I am not trying to prove you wrong, Dan. I am merely stating my disagreement with your statements being scriptural. And, if God is only calling those who don't know the gospel, why do they go to hell when they die? The two portions of scripture do not back up what you are saying, Dan. You may be able to pick out a piece and say it means what YOU mean, but you cannot say it justifies your broad terminology. And people can claim God hates me if they want. It does not move me in the least. I am sure of my position in the Lord Jesus. And please, Dan, know that I am just trying to get you to explain your use of those two portions of scripture to back up your statements. Just cutting and pasting them does not give you the right to say they back up your statements. And, I humbly disagree with your statement "God doesn't save those whom He hates; He saves those who hate HIM". God will not save those He hates, and he cannot save those who hate Him. It is a matter of repentance, Dan. It is a coming into agreement with God, and a lifestyle change, a heart change. By faith. In full agreement with God's provision for hatred against him. Dan, God is angry with the wicked every day, and He hates all workers of iniquity (Psalm 5:5, 7:11). And, He loves those who love (obey) him (John 14:21).
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