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Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 23, 2008 17:56:21 GMT -5
God's nature (his constitutional conscience) tells him to choose what is good. And he chooses to choose good. God is good by choice.
Our nature (our constitutional conscience) tells us good from evil. And sinners have chosen to be evil. Men are sinners by choice.
Moral states are always states of the will. Moral character is always determined by moral choices. Your nature tells you to do good, but your nature does not force you to do good. That is your own free will choice.
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Regarding Eph 2:3 this is from my outline:
4. “…by nature children of wrath” Ephesians 2:3:
-----A. The word nature can describe a man’s God given constitution: (Rom 1:26; 1:31; 2:14; 2:27; 2 Tim 3:3). But this is just dirt and it is created by God. Therefore it cannot be sinful in and of itself.
-----B. The word nature can describe a man’s self chosen character, custom, habit, or manner of life: (Jer. 13:23; Acts 26:4; 1 Cor 2:14; Eph 2:2-3; Gal 2:14-15; 2 Tim 3:10; 2 Pet 1:4). This is voluntary and has to do with the heart. Therefore moral character, or sinfulness, can belong to this type of nature.
-----C. The context of this particular passage is talking about a former manner of life, addressing a previous lifestyle. "Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world... among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of the flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind..." Eph. 2:2-3
-----D. A sinful nature is moral not metaphysical, it is a person’s self chosen character and not his God given constitution. A man’s heart (will) can be sinful, but a man’s body can only be an occasion of temptation.
“For Paul, the ‘sinful nature’ has to do with conduct, habit, and developed character.” F. Lagard Smith (Troubling Questions for Calvinists, pg. 123).
Men are sinners because of the way they choose to use their nature, because of their voluntary usage of their constitution. In Eph. 2:2-3 we see men forming the habit of using their constitution for evil, to serve themselves, instead of using them as instruments of righteousness, presenting themselves as living sacrifices to God.
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-----------(5.) The body in and of itself is amoral. It is good or bad depending on how free will decide to use it (Rom. 6:13, 19; 12:1; 1 Thes. 4:4, 5:23; 1 Tim. 2:8). Flesh, blood, bones, skin, are all amoral just like rocks, sticks, dirt, etc are. In fact, God made us out of the dirt (Gen. 2:7). Our bodies are only as sinful as dirt is sinful, and dirt is not sinful. You could use a rock in an evil way, but the rock itself is not evil. You could use your body in an evil way, but your body itself is not sinful. Sin is not physical. Sin is a choice of the heart.
-----------(6.) Jesus had the same flesh and blood that we have (Rom. 8:3 with Php. 2:7-8; Heb. 2:14, 16-18 with 4:15; Rom. 1:3 with 2 Tim. 2:8).
-----------(7.) The Gnostic heretics denied Jesus came in the flesh (1 Jn. 4:3; 2 Jn. 1:7) because they said the physical body was in and of itself sinful.
-----------(8.) When the Bible says that Jesus was made in the “likeness of sinful flesh” (Rom. 8:3) it simply means he was “made in the likeness of men” (Php. 2:7-8). “Flesh” is a term used for men in the Bible (Gen. 6:12; Matt. 16:17; Gal. 1:16).
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5. The occasion of sin and the cause of sin must be distinguished.
-----A. The occasion of sin (temptation) is the lust of the flesh (Gen. 3:6; Rom. 7:5, 23; Gal. 4:14; Jas. 1:14-15).
-----------(1.) The lusts of the flesh are an influence, not causation (1 Cor. 10:13).
“If these feelings are not suffered to influence the will… if such feelings are not cherished, and are not suffered to shake the integrity of the will; they are not sin. That is, the will does not consent to them, but the contrary. They are only temptations. If they are allowed to control the will, to break forth in words and actions, then there is sin; but the sin does not consist in the feelings, but in the consent of the will, to gratify them.” Charles Finney (Systematic Theology pg. 191).
-----B. The cause of sin is the decision or choice of the heart or will (Isa. 14:13-14; Rom. 6:12).
-----------(1.) Men make themselves sinners (Gen. 6:12; Exo. 32:7; Deut. 9:12; 32:5; 1 Sam. 3:13; Jdg. 2:19; Isa. 66:3; Hos. 9:9; Ps. 14:2-3; Isa. 53:6; Ecc. 7:29; Zep. 3:7; Matt. 12:34-35; 15:17-20; Mk. 7:15, 21-22; Lk. 6:45; Rom. 3:23).
-----------(2.) Men originate their sin in their own hearts (Ecc. 7:29; Matt. 12:34-35; 15:17-20; Mk. 7:15, 21-22; Lk. 6:45).
“… all men must look to themselves as the cause of their sin.” Gordon Olson (The Entrance of Sin into the World, pg 10).
“It is the very essence of moral government that man is the sole author of his own actions.” Gordon Olson (The Moral Government of God, pg. 15)
-----C. Sin is an abuse of our God given nature.
Pelagius said sinners “abuse the liberty granted to them” but the righteous are “rightly using freewill.” (An Historical Presentation of Augustinism And Pelagianism by Wiggers, p. 223)
“Moral beings themselves are the author of their own rebellion, which is an unintelligent abuse of their God-given endowments of personality…. It is man who has abused his God-given freedom.” Gordon Olson (The Entrance of Sin into the World, pg. 31, 38).
-----------(1.) Free will is an element of our nature. This is abused or misused when sin is chosen. The purpose of free will was so that we could obey God, so that we could love God and each other.
-----------(2.) Intelligence is an element of our nature. This is abused or misused when sin is chosen. The purpose of our intelligence was so that we could know right from wrong, so that we could know the will or law of God.
-----------(3.) Emotions are an element of our nature. This is abused or misused when sin is chosen. The purpose of our emotions was so that we could experience and enjoy God and each other.
-----------(4.) Sinners use their free will to serve their emotions, while acting entirely contrary to their intelligence. But free will was meant to obey our intelligence, and our emotions were meant to serve us.
-----------(5.) Sinners seek to gratify their God given desires in an unlawful and forbidden manner.
-----------(6.) Sinners have corrupted themselves (Gen. 6:12; Exo. 32:7; Deut. 9:12; Deut. 32:5; Jdg. 2:19; Hos. 9:9) and have perverted their own way (Jer. 3:21).
“The Bible declares that men, having been created upright and in the image of God, have corrupted themselves and sinned against the good nature that God created them with.” Alfred T. Overstreet (Over One Hundred Texts From The Bible That Show That Babies Are Not Born Sinners, pg. 3).
-----------(7.) Homosexuals are considered those who abuse themselves with mankind (1 Cor. 6:9). They are abusing what God has given them, using for evil what God meant for good.
“Sin… A failing to hit the mark… a misdirection of our faculties.” Gordon Olson (Holiness & Sin, pg. 30).
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 23, 2008 17:47:46 GMT -5
That is an awesome picture! Praise God! When I have a son, I will definitely make him a sandwich board!
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 22, 2008 9:52:12 GMT -5
I believe in the nature and character of God. Natural attributes is simply what you are, without any choice involved. That is your nature. Moral attributes is your character, it is what you choose to be. Nature is involuntary, but what is moral is always voluntary. Moral character is never involuntary, moral character is always chosen.
The nature of God has to do with His constitutional attributes and faculties. The moral character of God has to do with His will, with the voluntary condition of His heart.
God has natural attributes which He didn't choose to have, He simply has. For example: omniscience, omnipresent, omnipotent. God didn't choose to have these, He simply does.
God has moral attributes which He does choose to have. For example: God is patient, loving, kind, merciful, just, etc.
Both God's natural attributes and His moral attributes are eternal. They never began, they will never end. God has always had these attributes, He will never stop having these attributes, they are eternal attributes.
Retributive justice is giving to every moral being rewards and punishments according to what they deserve according to their own moral character. God chooses to do this. God chooses to give to every moral being rewards and punishments according to what they deserve according to their moral characters. That is why God is just. That is what the Bible means when it says God will judge the world in righteousness.
Public justice is seeking the highest well-being of all, through the means of law and punishment. God has chosen to establish a moral government in order to promote the highest well-being of His creation. Laws are not arbitrary rules. God Himself, in His divine mind, knows right from wrong (Gen. 3:22, 18:25; Job 34:10, 12) and He legislates accordingly. Laws do not originate right and wrong (Rom. 5:13; Gal. 5:19) but laws declare right and wrong (Rom. 3:20; 7:7). The laws of God are fundamentally derived from His divine mind (Gen. 3:22), declaring what He knows to be good and forbidding what He knows to be evil. Sin is whatever the divine intelligence of God deems as harmful or hurtful to the highest well-being of all. His laws therefore are truth; they are expressed truths of reality (Ps. 119:142). What God commands, He commands because it is right (Isa. 45:19).
There is no doubt that God's nature requires or demands that He be just. That is, His conscience affirms the rectitude of justice. God's divine nature tells Him what moral attributes He should choose. God's will is voluntarily under subjection to His nature. His nature, or conscience, tells Him what is morally right, and His will chooses what is morally right. God's nature is good, it affirms good, and therefore God's will chooses good. His nature does not necessitate His will, but His nature influences His will, and His will voluntarily complies. That is why God has a righteous moral character, because He chooses what His nature demands.
God is under obligation to His own conscience (Gen. 3:22; 18:25; Job 34:10, 12), God is under a moral obligation to obey His divine nature. Because God obeys His own moral obligation, God has moral character. Good moral character presupposes compliance with moral obligation. Without moral obligation, there can be no moral character.
God always acts in accordance with His wisdom (Prov. 3:19-20; 8:12; 8:22-30; 20:18; 24:3) and goodness (1 Jn. 4:8; 4:16).
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 22, 2008 8:50:41 GMT -5
Michael,
I'm glad that you are recovering. The whole situation really is awful.
You should have your lawyers look into whether or not the attacker was able to bail out or if the attacker stayed in jail until Monday as well.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 21, 2008 21:56:26 GMT -5
Paul said that he had a conscience VOID of offense.
That doesn't sound like a person who sinned "every day in word, thought, and deed" as the Westminster Catechism teaches.
Paul said that a leader in the Church needed to be BLAMELESS. Was Paul a hypocrite or was Paul blameless?
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 20, 2008 20:18:10 GMT -5
THE TRINITY A Plurality of Personality A Oneness of Purpose
"And God said, let us make man in our image, after our likeness" Gen. 1:26
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." 1 John 5:7
There is a plurality of persons (three distinct persons) but a oneness of essence and purpose. Three united persons make up the One true God.
The doctrine of the Trinity is something God has been revealing ever since the beginning of when He started writing the bible. For example, scriptures like, "And God said, Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness" (Gen. 1:26) and also, "And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of US, to know good and evil." (Gen. 3:22) This all reveals the internal plurality of the one God!
In the book "The Nature & Character of God" Winkie Pratney dedicated a large portion of his book to the Trinity, (pages 255-429)
Here is a section from his book that I thoroughly enjoyed:
"The Word 'Trinity' or 'Triunity' is not a biblical term but a theological one, describing the idea of three distinct centers of consciousness in the one God.
God is dinstictly called 'one Lord' (Deut. 6:4, Mark 12:29), but we must examine closely as to how the word one is being used. There are two kinds of unity or 'oneness' in both English and Hebrew; an absolute unity and compound unity. Absolute unity is that of singularity; I give you one apple, and you get a single apple. But if you ask for 'one' bunch of grapes, you don't simply get one grape! 'One' in this case is a word of compound unity, the many in the one.
One (Hebrew)
Yachead is the OT word for absolute unity; a mathematical or numerical one. It is used about 12 times in the OT, but never to describe the unity of God (Gen. 22:2, 12; Zech. 12:10)
Echad however speaks of a compound or collective unity. In marriage "the two shall be one flesh" (Gen. 2:24); a crowd can gather together 'as one' (Ezek. 3:1); or be of one mind or heart: "All the rest of Israel were of one heart to make David king" (1Chron 12:38). This is the compound plural always used of God when He is called "one" Lord.
.... El is a word used of God... The Father is El (Gen 14:18-22); The Son is El (Isa/ 7:14 [Immanuel]; Isa. 9:6-9); The Holy Spirit is El (Job 33:4; 37:10).
Elohim is the plural of El and is used about 2,500 times in the OT. It suggests a plurality of persons in the divine Godhead...
Adon (singular) or Adonai (plural) - Master, Owner, Ruler of All (Ps. 147:5; 86:12)"
End Quote.
So "Yachead" is the Hebrew word of absolute unity and it is NEVER used for God. But "Echad" is the Hebrew word of collective or compound unity and is ABUNDANTLY used for God.
"Elohim" is the plural term for the singular "El". "El" = God but "Elohim" God's. (not that there are many Gods, but that there is a plurality of personalities which make up one God).
"Adonai" is the plural version for the singular "Adon". "Adon" = Master while "Adonai" = Master's. (Again, not to suggest any polytheism, but rather to teach a plurality of personalities in God."
This was another part I thought was very good from the book:
"Q. Jesus prayed, 'that they may be one, even as we are one' (John 17:22). When we say that God is 'one' aren't we talking about His singleness of purpose of harmony of personal unity?
A. The Godhead indeed enjoy perfect unity or harmony of purpose in personal relationship that is to be a model for the Church. But the substantial unity of the Godhead is based on another consideration that are metaphysical, not merely moral - that since each member is uncreated, they are thus essential one in "substance, nature, and essence"
End quote.
So the Godhead are in fact one in purpose (moral) and they are also one in substance or nature (metaphysical) though there are three separate or distinction persons (personalities) all contained in the one (echad) collective God!!
Here is the way I see it:
Many doctrines = One Faith
Many parts = One Body
Many members = One Family
Three persons = One God
One God is made up of three distinct personalities, namely, the Father - The Son - and The Holy Spirit. Or you could say God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.
Oneness Pentecostals, as opposed to traditional Trinitarianism, wrongly interprets the word "one".
WHAT DOES "ONE" REALLY MEAN??
"One", which Oneness Pentecostals try to use against the doctrine of the Trinity, is "echad", pronounced as "ekh-awd", and it means "united".
Gen 2:24 "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife, and they shall be ONE (echad, united) flesh.
Deu 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is ONE (echad, united) Lord."
Just as a man and his wife are united (one) so also is God united (one). The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are in perfect unity and harmony, they are one in purpose.
But the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are not the same person (though they are the same God).
ONENESS IS PERFECT UNITY AMONGST PERSONS
Just as a married couple are "one" (two persons that are united), Jesus also said this about the Church: "that they may be ONE, even as we are ONE." John 17:22
If Jesus and the Father were one person, instead of two persons in unity, then Jesus prayed that all Christians would be one person, instead of many persons in unity.
- Did Jesus want Christians to be one person or to be united persons??
The same way Jesus was one with the Father, Jesus wanted the Church to be one with each other. Jesus and the Father are two persons that are one in purpose, they are united or in unity. And so Jesus wants Christians, who are different persons, to be one in purpose, to be united or in unity.
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So very clearly:
- A married couple is "one" (Gen 2:24): two persons that are in unity
- The Christian Church is "one" (John 17:22): many persons that are in unity
- God is "one" (Deut 6:4) : Three Divine Persons that are in unity
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 20, 2008 17:36:23 GMT -5
It was just a foreigner that I hired for peanuts....
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 20, 2008 17:34:26 GMT -5
THE DOCTRINE OF SYNERGISM
Mal. 3:7 “…Return unto me, and I will return unto you”.
Jas 4:8 - Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.
1Pe 1:22 - Seeing you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently.
In regards to conversion, I believe in the doctrine of synergy:
* Jesus has given us an "example" as to how we should live - John 13:15
* The grace teaches us to live holy and to deny sin - Titus 2:11
* God calls us to repent - Acts 17:30
* The Spirit convicts us of sin - John 16:8
* The instrument used in setting us free is truth - John 8:32.
* But we ourselves need to voluntarily repent (cleanse ourselves) - James 4:8; we ourselves need to voluntarily obey the truth (thus purify our souls) 1Pet 1:22.
Jesus, God, the Spirit, the Truth, God's grace, and freewill have a role in a sinner turning from sin (being cleansed from sin).
Jesus gave us an example, we must follow. God calls, we must obey. Grace teaches, we must listen. The Spirit convicts, we must yeild. Truth reveals, we must believe. And repentance is an act that we ourselves do, (it is not forced) and repentance is brought about by Jesus - God - Grace - Spirit - Truth.
These all influence us to repent (turn from sin, cleanse ourselves) and we ourselves must yield to or obey that influence.
And if we do this, if we obey by repenting, then the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin - 1John 1:7 - that is, the blood of Jesus Christ justifies us, God pardons us because of Christ's blood upon condition of repentance - Luke 13:3
Justification by the blood (cleansed from all sin) is upon condition of our own repentance, which is brought about by Jesus - God - Grace - Spirit - Truth. The blood cleanses (justifies) those who "walk in the light" and who "confess" their sin - 1John 1:7, 1:9
So we must repent and then the blood justifies us.
More on Synergy
The doctrine of synergy defined, as I understand it: God saves man, by influencing man's free will with truth, and man voluntary obeys the gospel.
NEW HEART
- God says He gives man a new heart:
Eze 36:26 - A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
- God commands man to make his own new heart:
Eze 18:31 - Cast away from yourselves all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make yourself a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
RECONCILIATION:
- God reconciles the world unto Himself:
2Co 5:19 - To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself
- God commands men to reconcile themselves unto God:
2Co 5:20 - God did beseech you by us: we beg you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
BEING SAVED:
- Jesus saves men:
Mt 1:21 - JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
- God commands men to save themselves:
Ac 2:40 - And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
PURIFICATION
- God purifies men through revelation:
Eph 5:26 - That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
- Men purify themselves through obedience to revelation:
1Pe 1:22 - Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth
PURGING:
Men purge themselves:
2Ti 2:21 - If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
1Co 5:7 - Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened.
God purges men:
Heb 9:14 - How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
SALVATION REQUIRES THE CO-OPERATION OF MAN! God wants all to be saved, but man must make a freewill decision to turn from all his sinning and put his faith in Jesus Christ.
All of these scriptures simply go to prove the biblical doctrine of synergy, and are utterly opposed to a Calvinistic monergism. God calls men, convicts men, pleads with men, all to influence their free wills to voluntarily surrender their lives to Him, so that they give their hearts voluntarily to Jesus Christ.
GOD WANTS ALL TO BE SAVED, BUT IT ULTIMATELY DEPENDS ON MAN'S FREE WILL:
Isaiah 30:15-16 - For thus said the Lord Jehovah, the Holy One of Israel, In repenting and rest shall ye be saved; in quietness and in confidence shall be your strength. And ye would not: but ye said, No”
Also consider:
If it were God's choice, everyone would repent and be saved, God's will is not that anyone should sin or continue in sin:
Acts 17:30 - And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
2Pe 3:9 - The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
But it's man's choice to repent and believe:
De 30:19 - I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that I have set before thee life and death, the blessing and the curse: therefore choose life, that thou mayest live, thou and thy seed;
Jos 24:15 - And if it seems evil to you to serve the Lord, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve,
Mt 23:37 - O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Lu 7:30 - But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the will of God for themselves, not having been baptized by him.
Lu 13:34 - O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!
John 5:40 - But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.
Ac 7:51 - You stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you.
Revelation 2:21 - And I gave her time that she should repent; and she willeth not to repent.
Re 22:17 - And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
God's Holy Will is not for any man to live in sin, die in sin, and go to hell for sin. God's Holy Will is that all men give up their sinning, trust in Jesus, and spend eternity with Him - a loving God.
SYNERGISM & THE ATONEMENT
Christ died for all men (Isa. 45:22; 53:6; 55:1; Eze. 18:30-32; Matt. 23:37; Mk. 16:15-16; Lk. 2:10-11; Jn. 1:29; 3:16; Rom. 2:11; 5:15; Heb. 2:9; 2 Cor. 5:14-15; 1 Tim. 2:11; 4:10; Tit. 2:11; Heb. 2:9; 2 Pet. 2:1; 1 Jn. 2:22; Rev. 3:20), and He died for all specifically because all men have chosen to become sinners of their own free will (Isa. 52:3; 53:6).
There is no partiality with God (Rom. 2:11; 2 Pet. 1:17), God wants everyone to repent and be saved (Ps. 145:9; Eze. 18:32; 33:1; Acts 17:30-31; 2 Pet. 3:9).
The atonement makes salvation possible and available to all men, it is a gift that God offers to all to accept and receive (Jn. 1:11-12; Lk. 14:16-24; Rom 5:18) through a decision (2 Cor. 5:20) to repent and believe, though many reject God’s gracious offer (Isa. 65:2; Lk. 7:30; 14:16-24; Jn. 1:10-11; Rom. 10:21; 2 Thes. 1:8; 1 Pet. 4:17) and resist His grace (Gen. 6:30; Matt. 23:37; Lk. 7:30, 13:34; Acts 7:51).
God is trying to save all men (Jn. 3:16, 6:44-45, 12:32; 16:8; Acts 17:30-31, 2 Pet. 3:9). God gives light to all men (Jn. 1:9), God is convicting all men (Jn. 16:8), God is drawing all men (Jn. 6:44-45, 12:32), God is calling all men (Matt. 11:28, 22:9; Lk. 5:32; Acts 17:30; Rev. 22:17).
A revelation of the suffering of Christ should subdue our hearts and bring us to complete surrender unto God (Rom. 2:4), repenting out of a motive of love, not selfishness (1 Jn. 4:19). God is drawing all men through the atonement (Jn. 12:32), and it is His loving kindness which draws us (Jer.. 31:3; Rom. 2:4).
Transformation, liberation, or regeneration is through spiritual revelation, when men obey the gospel of Jesus Christ from the heart (Jn. 6:45, 63; 8:32; 15:3; 17:17; Acts 9:4-6; Rom. 2:8; 6:17; 1 Cor. 4:15; Tit. 2:11-12; 1 Tim. 2:4; 2 Thes. 1:8; 1 Pet. 1:22-23; 4:17; 2 Pet. 1:2-3; 2:20; Jas. 1:18; 21-22).
That is why we must publicly preach Christ (Acts 5:42; 9:20; 17:3; 1 Cor. 1:23; 2 Cor. 2:12; 4:5; Eph. 3:8; Php. 1:15-16), why we must preach the truth of the kingdom of God (Lk. 4:43; 9:2; 9:60; Acts 19:8; 20:25; 28:23; 28:31), why we see Paul publicly reasoning with men (Acts 19:8; Acts 19:9), particularly reasoning about the Christ (Acts 28:23). Men are in the bondage of deception (Lk. 2:18; 2 Cor. 4:4; 2 Tim. 2:26) so they need liberation through the preaching of the truth (Jn. 8:32; Lk. 2:18; 2 Tim. 2:24-25).
Sacrifices are useless without a change of heart, without a deep moral change inside the transgressor for whom the sacrifice is made (Ps. 50:7-23; 51:16-17; Prov. 15:8; 16:6; 21:3; 21:27; Isa. 1:10-17; 56:6-7; 66:3-4; Jer. 7:21-26; 11:14-17; 14:10-12; Hos. 6:6-7; 8:11-14; 9:1-6; 12:9-11; 14:1-3; Joel 1:9;, 13; 2:12-14; Amos 4:4-5; 5:21-27; Jonah 1:15; 2:9; 3:5-10; Mic. 6:6-8; Zeph. 1:7-13; 3:10-11; Hag. 2:14; Zech. 14:21; Mal. 1:6-14; 2:10-14; 3:3-4; Matt. 9:13; 12:7; Heb. 10:8).
Laws have penalties to secure obedience to the precept. If the atonement is to substitute our punishment, it must just as equally secure obedience to the precept as the punishments would have. So the atonement is designed to deliver us from a life of sinning, to turn sinners into saints (Jn. 1:29; Acts 3:26; 2 Cor. 5:15; Eph. 5:25-27; Col 1:21-23; Titus 2:11-12; Heb. 9:26; 10:10; 1 Jn. 1:7; 3:5). Jesus is a Savior from sin (Matt. 1:21). Christ died so “that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us” (Rom. 8:4) Christ died “to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself” (Heb. 9:26). Christians are saved unto obedience (1 Pet. 1:2) and unto good works (Eph. 2:10; Titus 2:14).
This is because the atonement breaks and subdues our hearts, so that the cross brings us to repentance unto obedience (Rom. 2:4; 1 Jn. 4:19). The atonement so affects our hearts that we turn from our disobedience in humble, sincere, and deep repentance.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 20, 2008 17:26:56 GMT -5
Anytime Sign has made 8 sandwich boards for preachers, that I know of. That's awesome!
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 20, 2008 15:48:17 GMT -5
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 20, 2008 15:31:22 GMT -5
Paul,
I agree that our motive in preaching the Gospel should primarily be the glory of God. No doubt about that.
My question was whether we should want everyone to be saved or not. As Christians, should we want everyone to be saved? If God does not want everyone to be saved, isn't it ungodly for us to want this?
If God wants men to be born sinners, without the ability to obey, sin out of necessity, die in their sin, and go to hell forever and ever so that He can be glorified, shouldn't we want this as well? Shouldn't we want God to send cripples to hell, for violating an impossible law, in order to glorify God's justice?
If God wants only a few people to repent and believe, to glorify His mercy, and wants most people to continue in sin and go to hell, to glorify His "justice", then shouldn't we want this as well? Shouldn't we want most people to continue sinning and go to hell, so that God can be glorified?
My understanding of the Bible is that God wants everyone to repent and be saved, but those who fail to do so, God wants the next best thing - their punishment. God wants everyone to glorify Him through obedience, but those who continue to disobey will at least provide an opportunity for real justice to be glorified throughout the Universe, before all the hosts of Heaven. God will magnify His law through the punishment of transgressors. And on Judgment Day, the Saints will say "amen" when God sends sinners to hell. But on earth, Saints want everyone to repent and be saved while there is still time, just like God does.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 20, 2008 15:18:59 GMT -5
Here is info from D. Christenson:
I spoke to Mike about the whole ordeal this morning, he was still in the hospital when we spoke. He has bleeding on the brain from the vicious attack by a man with a grudge. Here is the break down.... Mike was preaching his normal message on the boardwalk, preaching nothing different from what he normally preaches every time he is out there. He said that an X-marine about 24 or 25 years old was in the crowd. This guy shouted out "Hey, you must be one of those guys that thanks God for dead marines and IED'S" (Fred Phelp's type) Mike is not in the Fred Phelps hyper Calvinist camp and would never thank God for IED's! Mike did not say "Thank God for dead marines or thank God for IED's or I wish you were dead or Too bad you did not get killed by an IED" Mike said that he responded to what the x-marine said by reminded the crowd that you never know when you are going to die and particularly soldiers who may be killed by an IED. The X-marine and his cohort left for the bar. Mike continued to preach, after some time the drunk x-marine came back and SUCKER PUNCHED Mike (not enough courage to even stand toe to toe and give Mike a fair chance at ducking the punch) Mike hits the cement and is out cold. Dave Donley is there, Dave is a regular evangelist on Virginia Beach. Dave saw the whole thing first hand. Dave told Mike that he thought that this was an unprovoked attack and confirmed that there was nothing different in Mike's preaching than what he normally says to the crowd. A Canadian preacher also witnessed the attack and had been there listening to the preaching. He gave Dave his information and said that he would be glad to return to the states to testify on Mike's behalf. The police arrested the perpetrator and his buddy. Mike was arrested for disturbing the peace after he left the hospital. Pastor Dave Bishop of True Vine Baptist Church was arrested a couple of weeks ago for disturbing the peace by his preaching. This is the second arrest for 'disturbing the peace' that Pastor Bishop has endured since the SOAPA conference. Mike will be sending out a photo of the injuries he sustained in the attack....this photo should dispel any doubt or suggestion that there was only a single punch involved in the attack as some who were not even there have suggested on the blogosphere. This was a vicious, unprovoked attack and there are people within the police force and sadly, others who even call themselves Christians, who would suggest that this attack was somehow justified and they will bend the truth to suit their own particular agenda. This is common practice in a situation like this and to be expected. This is the reason why video tape and audio recording is CRITICAL! For the record...Mike has NEVER been arrested for anything before. He has a clean record and for the magistrate to keep him in jail with bleeding on the brain, without allowing Mike to post bail is cruel and UNUSUAL punishment... The Alliance Defense Fund is getting involved at this point. Virginia Beach is out of control.
Sincerely Yours, D. Christensen
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 20, 2008 15:18:12 GMT -5
Here is a report from Richard:
I spoke to Mike about the whole ordeal this morning, he was still in the hospital when we spoke. He has bleeding on the brain from the vicious attack by a man with a grudge. Here is the break down.... Mike was preaching his normal message on the boardwalk, preaching nothing different from what he normally preaches every time he is out there. He said that an X-marine about 24 or 25 years old was in the crowd. This guy shouted out "Hey, you must be one of those guys that thanks God for dead marines and IED'S" (Fred Phelp's type) Mike is not in the Fred Phelps hyper Calvinist camp and would never thank God for IED's! Mike did not say "Thank God for dead marines or thank God for IED's or I wish you were dead or Too bad you did not get killed by an IED" Mike said that he responded to what the x-marine said by reminded the crowd that you never know when you are going to die and particularly soldiers who may be killed by an IED. The X-marine and his cohort left for the bar. Mike continued to preach, after some time the drunk x-marine came back and SUCKER PUNCHED Mike (not enough courage to even stand toe to toe and give Mike a fair chance at ducking the punch) Mike hits the cement and is out cold. Dave Donley is there, Dave is a regular evangelist on Virginia Beach. Dave saw the whole thing first hand. Dave told Mike that he thought that this was an unprovoked attack and confirmed that there was nothing different in Mike's preaching than what he normally says to the crowd. A Canadian preacher also witnessed the attack and had been there listening to the preaching. He gave Dave his information and said that he would be glad to return to the states to testify on Mike's behalf. The police arrested the perpetrator and his buddy. Mike was arrested for disturbing the peace after he left the hospital. Pastor Dave Bishop of True Vine Baptist Church was arrested a couple of weeks ago for disturbing the peace by his preaching. This is the second arrest for 'disturbing the peace' that Pastor Bishop has endured since the SOAPA conference. Mike will be sending out a photo of the injuries he sustained in the attack....this photo should dispel any doubt or suggestion that there was only a single punch involved in the attack as some who were not even there have suggested on the blogosphere. This was a vicious, unprovoked attack and there are people within the police force and sadly, others who even call themselves Christians, who would suggest that this attack was somehow justified and they will bend the truth to suit their own particular agenda. This is common practice in a situation like this and to be expected. This is the reason why video tape and audio recording is CRITICAL! For the record...Mike has NEVER been arrested for anything before. He has a clean record and for the magistrate to keep him in jail with bleeding on the brain, without allowing Mike to post bail is cruel and UNUSUAL punishment... The Alliance Defense Fund is getting involved at this point. Virginia Beach is out of control.
Sincerely Yours, Richard Christensen
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 20, 2008 15:09:58 GMT -5
Starting people out with hand held signs is a good idea. Not everyone starts out with signs and banners. Hand held signs is a good place to start.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 20, 2008 7:55:07 GMT -5
I believe in the nature and character of God. Natural attributes is simply what you are, without any choice involved. That is your nature. Moral attributes is your character, it is what you choose to be. Nature is involuntary, but what is moral is always voluntary. Moral character is never involuntary, moral character is always chosen.
The nature of God has to do with His constitutional attributes and faculties. The moral character of God has to do with His will, with the voluntary condition of His heart.
God has natural attributes which He didn't choose to have, He simply has. For example: omniscience, omnipresent, omnipotent. God didn't choose to have these, He simply does.
God has moral attributes which He does choose to have. For example: God is patient, loving, kind, merciful, just, etc.
Both God's natural attributes and His moral attributes are eternal. They never began, they will never end. God has always had these attributes, He will never stop having these attributes, they are eternal attributes.
Retributive justice is giving to every moral being rewards and punishments according to what they deserve according to their own moral character. God chooses to do this. God chooses to give to every moral being rewards and punishments according to what they deserve according to their moral characters. That is why God is just. That is what the Bible means when it says God will judge the world in righteousness.
Public justice is seeking the highest well-being of all, through the means of law and punishment. God has chosen to establish a moral government in order to promote the highest well-being of His creation. Laws are not arbitrary rules. God Himself, in His divine mind, knows right from wrong (Gen. 3:22, 18:25; Job 34:10, 12) and He legislates accordingly. Laws do not originate right and wrong (Rom. 5:13; Gal. 5:19) but laws declare right and wrong (Rom. 3:20; 7:7). The laws of God are fundamentally derived from His divine mind (Gen. 3:22), declaring what He knows to be good and forbidding what He knows to be evil. Sin is whatever the divine intelligence of God deems as harmful or hurtful to the highest well-being of all. His laws therefore are truth; they are expressed truths of reality (Ps. 119:142). What God commands, He commands because it is right (Isa. 45:19).
There is no doubt that God's nature requires or demands that He be just. That is, His conscience affirms the rectitude of justice. God's divine nature tells Him what moral attributes He should choose. God's will is voluntarily under subjection to His nature. His nature, or conscience, tells Him what is morally right, and His will chooses what is morally right. God's nature is good, it affirms good, and therefore God's will chooses good. His nature does not necessitate His will, but His nature influences His will, and His will voluntarily complies. That is why God has good moral character, because He chooses what His nature demands.
God is under obligation to His own conscience (Gen. 3:22; 18:25; Job 34:10, 12), God is under a moral obligation to obey His divine nature. Because God obeys His own moral obligation, God has moral character. Moral character presupposes compliance with moral obligation. Without moral obligation, there can be no moral character.
God always acts in accordance with His wisdom (Prov. 3:19-20; 8:12; 8:22-30; 20:18; 24:3) and goodness (1 Jn. 4:8; 4:16).
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 19, 2008 19:58:23 GMT -5
Praise God! So many preachers are getting sandwich boards! It's awesome! Glad I could help!
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 19, 2008 7:10:38 GMT -5
NEWS ALERT Bro. Michael Anderson of Virginia Beach, VA, was assaulted by some of the party goers on the Boardwalk at Virginia Beach on Friday night the 16th of August. Bro Mike was preaching on the Boardwalk as he has been doing for several years when he was suddenly met with extreme violence. Mike was assaulted, knocked down and kicked, he received multiple head wounds, his face is barely recognizable, the perpetrator repeatedly kicked him in the face. This happened while the ever present party animals at Virginia Beach looked on with glee. It is note worthy that the 'ever present' Virginia Beach police were conspicuously absent at the time of the beating and conveniently showed up only after Bro. Anderson was lying semi-conscious in a pool of his own blood. Bro. Anderson was taken to the hospital emergency room where he remained for quite some time, it was reported that after waiting for 'emergency' attention for well over an hour at this third world 'emergency' room, that he finally decided to head home and take his chances with Bactine, Isopropyl Alcohol and bandages. As Bro. Mike was leaving the third world hospital facility he was met in the parking lot by aggravated assault specialist from the local police department. They questioned Mr. Anderson about the content of his preaching and decided that he was to blame for his current condition and that he needed to be arrested on the spot for causing a disturbance of the revelry on Virginia Beach! Bro. Mike Anderson was then escorted to the Virginia Beach jail cell where he has remained to this hour since Friday night....without medical care and without even a bond being set for his release...courtesy of the local magistrate! Welcome to America, the land of truth, justice and the Constitution! You can reach Mike (when the judge decides its 'safe' to release him from his chains) at.... (757) 513-7062 cell phone (502) 409-4600 home phone email at: Michael@preachbz.com
Please keep Bro. Mike in your prayers... P.S. Mike's wife is not and has never been supportive of his call to preach in the open air from the beginning so this adds to the pressure that he is under....some of you know what this is like.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 19, 2008 7:08:05 GMT -5
I was about to post this.
Unbelievable.
Praying for Michael.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 18, 2008 21:02:42 GMT -5
He talks about the nature and character of God. He explains how nature is metaphysical, something you do not choose. But character is moral, something you do choose. The book covers the natural and moral attributes of God.
That includes the debate whether God is inside of time or outside of time. That has to do with the nature of God. I enjoyed what I read from this book on that particular issue.
He also talks about the moral government of God and the free will of both God and man.
It is a very scholarly, thought provoking book. I enjoyed how every topic relating to the nature and character of God had a thorough Greek and Hebrew word study. Winkie also compiled great quotes on each topic from Christians throughout history.
You can read some reviews on Amazon.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 18, 2008 19:11:38 GMT -5
The doctrine of the Trinity is something God has been revealing ever since the beginning of when He started writing the bible. For example, scriptures like, "And God said, Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness" (Gen. 1:26) and also, "And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of US, to know good and evil." (Gen. 3:22) This all reveals the internal plurality of the one God!
In the book "The Nature & Character of God" Winkie Pratney dedicated a large portion of his book to the Trinity, (pages 255-429)
Here is a section from his book that I thoroughly enjoyed:
"The Word 'Trinity' or 'Triunity' is not a biblical term but a theological one, describing the idea of three distinct centers of consciousness in the one God.
God is dinstictly called 'one Lord' (Deut. 6:4, Mark 12:29), but we must examine closely as to how the word one is being used. There are two kinds of unity or 'oneness' in both English and Hebrew; an absolute unity and compound unity. Absolute unity is that of singularity; I give you one apple, and you get a single apple. But if you ask for 'one' bunch of grapes, you don't simply get one grape! 'One' in this case is a word of compound unity, the many in the one.
One (Hebrew)
Yachead is the OT word for absolute unity; a mathematical or numerical one. It is used about 12 times in the OT, but never to describe the unity of God (Gen. 22:2, 12; Zech. 12:10)
Echad however speaks of a compound or collective unity. In marriage "the two shall be one flesh" (Gen. 2:24); a crowd can gather together 'as one' (Ezek. 3:1); or be of one mind or heart: "All the rest of Israel were of one heart to make David king" (1Chron 12:38). This is the compound plural always used of God when He is called "one" Lord.
.... El is a word used of God... The Father is El (Gen 14:18-22); The Son is El (Isa/ 7:14 [Immanuel]; Isa. 9:6-9); The Holy Spirit is El (Job 33:4; 37:10).
Elohim is the plural of El and is used about 2,500 times in the OT. It suggests a plurality of persons in the divine Godhead...
Adon (singular) or Adonai (plural) - Master, Owner, Ruler of All (Ps. 147:5; 86:12)"
End Quote.
So "Yachead" is the Hebrew word of absolute unity and it is NEVER used for God. But "Echad" is the Hebrew word of collective or compound unity and is ABUNDANTLY used for God.
"Elohim" is the plural term for the singular "El". "El" = God but "Elohim" God's. (not that there are many Gods, but that there is a plurality of personalities which make up one God).
"Adonai" is the plural version for the singular "Adon". "Adon" = Master while "Adonai" = Master's. (Again, not to suggest any polytheism, but rather to teach a plurality of personalities in God."
This was another part I thought was very good from the book:
"Q. Jesus prayed, 'that they may be one, even as we are one' (John 17:22). When we say that God is 'one' aren't we talking about His singleness of purpose of harmony of personal unity?
A. The Godhead indeed enjoy perfect unity or harmony of purpose in personal relationship that is to be a model for the Church. But the substantial unity of the Godhead is based on another consideration that are metaphysical, not merely moral - that since each member is uncreated, they are thus essential one in "substance, nature, and essence"
End quote.
So the Godhead are in fact one in purpose (moral) and they are also one in substance or nature (metaphysical) though there are three separate or distinction persons (personalities) all contained in the one (echad) collective God!!
Here is the way I see it:
Many doctrines = One Faith
Many parts = One Body
Many members = One Family
Three persons = One God
One God is made up of three distinct personalities, namely, the Father - The Son - and The Holy Spirit. Or you could say God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.
Oneness Pentecostals, as opposed to traditional Trinitarianism, wrongly interprets the word "one".
WHAT DOES "ONE" REALLY MEAN??
"One", which Oneness Pentecostals try to use against the doctrine of the Trinity, is "echad", pronounced as "ekh-awd", and it means "united".
Gen 2:24 "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife, and they shall be ONE (echad, united) flesh.
Deu 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is ONE (echad, united) Lord."
Just as a man and his wife are united (one) so also is God united (one). The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are in perfect unity and harmony, they are one in purpose.
But the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are not the same person (though they are the same God).
ONENESS IS PERFECT UNITY AMONGST PERSONS
Just as a married couple are "one" (two persons that are united), Jesus also said this about the Church: "that they may be ONE, even as we are ONE." John 17:22
If Jesus and the Father were one person, instead of two persons in unity, then Jesus prayed that all Christians would be one person, instead of many persons in unity.
- Did Jesus want Christians to be one person or to be united persons??
The same way Jesus was one with the Father, Jesus wanted the Church to be one with each other. Jesus and the Father are two persons that are one in purpose, they are united or in unity. And so Jesus wants Christians, who are different persons, to be one in purpose, to be united or in unity.
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So very clearly:
- A married couple is "one" (Gen 2:24): two persons that are in unity
- The Christian Church is "one" (John 17:22): many persons that are in unity
- God is "one" (Deut 6:4) : Three Divine Persons that are in unity
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 18, 2008 19:10:46 GMT -5
"And God said, let us make man in our image, after our likeness" Gen. 1:26
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." 1 John 5:7
There is a plurality of persons (three distinct persons) but a oneness of essence and purpose. Three united persons make up the One true God.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 18, 2008 15:08:43 GMT -5
ROMANS SEVEN
First and foremost, we must understand what Paul is arguing for. What is the context and object of Paul's argument? Paul is trying to vindicate the law from the charge of causing sin.
"What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid!" Rom. 7:7 "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good." Rom. 7:12
The rest of Paul's argument explains how the law, or the work of the law upon the mind, is not the fault of sin. But that sin is the fault of the sinner, of the choice of the sinners own inner heart. So Paul explains how the fault is not with the law, but with the sinner.
And we must also understand that Paul is not explaining his own Christian experience. Paul is going on a narrative to explain how the law of God, working on the mind of a sinner, brings the man into a state of misery. "For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. And the commandment which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death." Rom. 7:9-10. Paul started off explaining how a sinner is careless, but then the commandment comes and convicts him and he be comes miserable.
"For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal sold under sin." Rom. 7:14
The law commands me to walk after the spiritual things, to live a life of morality, but I am living for myself, for my own selfish gratification, I have given myself to sin.
"For that which I do I allow not, for what I would that do I not; but what I hate, that do I." Rom. 7:15
That which I choose, my convicted mind condemns. That which my mind requires, I do not choose. But what my mind condemns, that I choose.
"If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good." Rom. 7:16
If then I choose that which my mind condemns, I mentally consent unto the goodness of the law.
"Now then, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me." Rom. 7:17
Therefore, it is not my convicted mind that causes me to sin, but it is the choice of my own inner heart. Sin comes out of the heart (Matt. 15:19; Mk. 7:21), it is a choice to let sin reign inside of you (Job 11:14, Matt. 23:26, Rom. 6:12).
"For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) dwelleth no good thing" Rom. 7:18
I know, through the conviction of the law upon my mind, that my heart is in total rebellion against God.
"For to will is present with me: but to perform that which is good I find not." Rom. 7:18
The ability to will is present with me, but to actually perform that which my mind confirms as good I find that I do not choose.
"For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do." Rom. 7:19
For the good that my mind tells me should be chosen, I do not choose. But the evil which my mind condemns, that I choose.
"Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me." Rom. 7:20
If my heart chooses that which my convicted mind condemns, it is not my convicted minds fault, but it is the fault of the choice of my own inner heart. Sin comes out of the heart (Matt. 15:19; Mk. 7:21), it is a choice to let sin reign inside of you (Job 11:14, Matt. 23:26, Rom. 6:12). The fact that I do what I know I shouldn't, this proves that sin is still in my heart.
"I find then a law, that when I would do good, evil is present with me." Rom. 7:21
I see then a habit, that when my convicted mind commands me to do good, my heart is still evil.
"For I delight in the law of God after the inward man." Rom. 7:22
My inner conscience sees the goodness of the law of God.
"But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members." Rom. 7:23
I see another influence that is in me, the influence of my flesh which seeks gratification, which is contrary to the law that my mind delights in, and I am brought into the bondage of being governed by my passions instead of by my conscience.
"O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death?" Rom. 7:24
What a miserable person that I am, without any peace of mind! Who can possibly deliver me from choosing to serve the pleasures of my flesh, from unlawfully gratifying my passions, which leads me to such spiritual and miserable death?
"I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord" Rom. 7:25
I am thankful to God that through Jesus Christ our Lord, a wicked rebellious heart can be subdued, and we can have peace of mind.
"So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin." Rom 7:25
In summary, the mind of a convicted sinner affirms the law of God, but they themselves are still serving sin, still seeking their own self-gratification, still using their members as instruments of unrighteousness (Rom. 6:13, 19).
And it is important to understand that Paul's argument does not stop here! He continues his argument:
"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit." Rom. 8:1
The mind of those who choose to obey the Spirit, instead gratifying their flesh, no longer condemns them. They have peace of conscience and are no longer convicted sinners. They are no longer miserable and wretched, under the condemnation of their minds.
"For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit." Rom. 8:5
Individuals who seek to gratify the flesh choose to do things that please their flesh, but individuals who choose to live according to the spirit do things that please the spirit.
"For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace." Rom. 8:6
To choose to be purposed after selfishness is misery, but to be purposed to obey your conscience is real life with peace of mind.
"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Romans 8:2-4
The law of God could never subdue the hearts of rebels, as proven through Romans 7. And so what the law could not do, the Gospel can do. The grace of God shown as the cross of Christ is powerful enough to subdue our hearts and bring us to submission and obedience, that the righteousness of the law be fulfilled in our hearts, so as no longer have sin reigning and dwelling in our hearts. (1 Jn. 4:19)
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 18, 2008 13:24:37 GMT -5
God does have plans all throughout the Bible. The flood, the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, the incarnation and sacrifice of Christ, the destruction of the world, the Day of Judgment, Heaven, hell, etc.
God makes very definite plans. In an open system, God is able to both make plans and change plans. For example, God planned the destruction of Nineveh, but then He changed His plans. This is only possible in an open system.
There can be no alternative possibilities unless there is an open system.
A foreknown event is a certain event. A predestined event is a necessitated event. A free will event is a contingent event.
What is certain will happen. What is necessitated must happen. What is contingent may or may not happen.
In a system of certainties (eternal foreknowledge) there can be no alternative possibilities.
In a system of necessity (exhaustive predestination) there can be no alternative possibilities.
But in a system of contingencies (free will decisions) there can be countless possibilities.
And God, being omniscient, would foreknow all of these possibilities. God would know reality as it is. What is open God would know as open, what is settled God would know as settled. If something may or may not happen, God would know that it may or may not happen. If something definitely will happen, God would know that it definitely will happen. The future would be partly open (unsettled) and partly settled (determined) and God would know the future as the future is.
If God has eternal foreknowledge, God is powerless to plan anything at all.
If God has predestined everything, even this requires that God Himself at least lives in an open system, where events were not foreknown until God predestined them. God could only predestine everything if everything was at first originally unsettled and therefore not foreknown.
If God lives in an open system, then God is able to make plans, change plans, change circumstances, create circumstances, guide history, etc. Really, only an in open system is God able to be God at all.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 18, 2008 8:26:33 GMT -5
This is from Brother Jed:
August 18-19, Illinois State University
August 20-22, Indiana State University
August 25-26 University of Missouri
August 27 Truman State University
August 28-29 University of Missouri
September 2-12 University of Minnesota, St. Cloud St., Mankato St., University of Wisconsin, Stout, River Falls and Eau Claire. Michael Leisner will be my host.
September 15-18 University of Wisconsin, Madison and Oshkosh
September 19-21 Evangelistic Education Ministry Conference, Shipshewana, IN
September 22-Oct. 17 an eastern tour concentrating on campuses in Washington D.C. area. Daughter Evangeline has been assigned to Ft. Meade. Sister Pat will be staying with her. Sister Pat and I will work campuses in within a days driving distance, like University of Maryland, Towson State, and University of Virginia. We will also work N.J. campuses and Philadelphia area. Detail are still in the works, if anyone wants to help out while we are in these areas please contact me.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 17, 2008 17:07:44 GMT -5
Kureji,
I look forward to it.
Miles,
This is the schedule that Michael Venya sent out for his ministry:
8/25-8/29-Michigan State University (East Lansing, MI) 9/2-9/5- Saginaw Valley State University (Saginaw, MI) (9/1 Labor Day) 9/8-9/12- Central Michigan University (Mount Pleasant, MI) 9/15-19- Ferris State University (Big Rapids, MI) 9/22-9/26- Grand Valley State University (Allendale, MI) 9/29-10/3- Western Michigan University (Kalamazoo, MI) 10/6-10/10- University of Michigan (Ann Arbor, MI) 10/13-10/17- Eastern Michigan University (Ypsilanti, MI) 10/20-10/24- Wayne State University (Detroit, MI) 10/27-10/31- University of Pittsburgh (Pittsburgh, PA) 11/3-11/7- Morehead State University (Morehead, KY) 11/10-11/17- Kentucky State University (Frankfort, KY) 11/17-11/22- University of Kentucky (Lexington, KY) 11/24-11/26- Eastern Kentucky University (Richmond, KY) (Thanksgiving Break) 12/1-12/5- University of Tennessee (Knoxville, TN) 12/8-12/12- University of Tennessee (Chattanooga, TN)
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 17, 2008 12:37:04 GMT -5
Hey that is pretty neat.
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 17, 2008 9:32:56 GMT -5
Here is a great lecture on The Unity of Moral Action: www.pinpointevangelism.com/libraryoftheologycom/writings/moralcharacter/Unity_of_Moral_Action_Finney.pdf"That obedience cannot be partial in the sense that the subject ever does, or can, partly obey and partly disobey at the same time.... Can the will at the same time make opposite choices? Can it choose the highest good of being as an ultimate end, and at the same time choose any other ultimate end, or make any choices whatever inconsistent with this ultimate choice? ..... The mind cannot choose one ultimate end, and choose at the same time another ultimate end." Charles Finney You cannot choose the glory of God as the supreme object of your pursuit (good) and choose your own selfish pleasure as your ultimate intention or pursuit (evil). In other words, you cannot serve two Masters. Good and evil are exact opposites, you cannot choose both of them at the same time. You can choose good one moment, and choose evil the next moment, but you cannot choose both at the same time. Sin or righteousness comes out of the will or heart (Isa. 14:13-14; Eze. 11:21; Ps. 58:2; Matt. 5:28; 12:35; 15:18-19; Lk. 6:45; Rom. 6:17; 10:10; 2 Pet. 2:14). And since we only have one heart, we are holy or sinful, righteous or unrighteous, moral or immoral, loving or selfish, obedient or disobedient, at any given time, but never both at the same time (Matt. 6:22-24; 7:17-18; 12:33; Lk. 11:34-36; Rom. 3:10-18; 2 Cor. 5:17; Tit. 1:15-16; Jas. 2:10; 3:11-12). You cannot serve two masters (Matt. 6:24; Lk. 16:13), since you only have one heart, you only have one will. A good tree will have good fruit. It cannot have bad fruit. - Jesus The same spring cannot give forth both bitter and good water. - James
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 16, 2008 20:55:56 GMT -5
Here is a great lecture on the unity of moral action: www.pinpointevangelism.com/libraryoftheologycom/writings/moralcharacter/Unity_of_Moral_Action_Finney.pdfYou cannot choose the glory of God as the supreme object of your pursuit (good) and choose your own selfish pleasure as your ultimate intention or pursuit (evil). In other words, you cannot serve two Masters. Good and evil are exact opposites, you cannot choose both of them at the same time. You can choose good one moment, and choose evil the next moment, but you cannot choose both at the same time. Sin or righteousness comes out of the will or heart (Isa. 14:13-14; Eze. 11:21; Ps. 58:2; Matt. 5:28; 12:35; 15:18-19; Lk. 6:45; Rom. 6:17; 10:10; 2 Pet. 2:14). And since we only have one heart, we are holy or sinful, righteous or unrighteous, moral or immoral, loving or selfish, obedient or disobedient, at any given time, but never both at the same time (Matt. 6:22-24; 7:17-18; 12:33; Lk. 11:34-36; Rom. 3:10-18; 2 Cor. 5:17; Tit. 1:15-16; Jas. 2:10; 3:11-12). You cannot serve two masters (Matt. 6:24; Lk. 16:13), since you only have one heart, you only have one will. A good tree will have good fruit. It cannot have bad fruit. - Jesus The same spring cannot give forth both bitter and good water. - James
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 16, 2008 20:26:30 GMT -5
1. Aug. 21-23 - Henderson KY 2. Aug. 23 - Evansville, IN 3. Aug. 23-29 - Columbia , MO 4. Aug. 29-30 - Fayetteville, AR 5. Aug. 30-Sep. 3 - Dallas, TX 6. Sep. 3-6 - Tyler, TX 7. Sep. 6-15 - Austin , TX 8. Sep. 15-18 - San Marcos, TX 9. Sep. 18-20 - Warsaw, IN (tentitive) 10. Sep. 20-28 - Lake Charles, LA 11. Sep. 28- Oct. 4 - Pensacola, FL 12. Oct. 4-13 - Madison AL 13. Oct 13-19 - Atlanta, GA 14. Oct. 19-26 - Tallahassee, FL 15. Oct. 26- Nov. 2 - Tampa, FL 16. Nov.2-9 - Orlando, FL 17. Nov. 9-16 - Daytona, FL 18. Nov. 16-22 - Fayetteville, NC 19. Nov. 22-29 - Virginia Beach, VA 20. Nov. 29-Dec.5 - Hyattsville, MD 21. Dec. 5-8 - Pittsburgh, PA 22. Dec.8-31 - Cheshire, CT *** Dates Subject To Change***
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Post by Jesse Morrell on Aug 16, 2008 15:15:24 GMT -5
I am an open theist, but I have not throughly studied middle knowledge.
I would say this, if God eternally foreknew all things, He could not predetermine anything. Therefore if God has ever planned anything, it was at one time open. If God has ever determined anything, then it must have been undetermined and unknown before hand. God could not have plans, or predestine anything, unless it was first unsettled, open, undetermined, contingent, or a possibility. If God eternally foreknew everything, nothing was an open possibility, all things would have been eternal certainties. And if all things were already eternal certainties, God could not predestine or necessitate anything. If all is eternally certain, nothing could have been necessitated.
If God knew, from all of eternity, that you would be in a car accident next week, God is powerless to stop it. God cannot help you, or else His foreknowledge would be wrong.
But if God foresees this open possibility, and sees circumstances that are leading up to it, then God can make the necessary provisions and arrangements to stop the event from happening.
With eternal foreknowledge, God is powerless to avoid anything. But in an open system, God can plan things and avoid things.
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